Nurses: The NHS is at breaking point
Discussion
TBF though, some of this is from initiatives like the one rolled out last year where patients with minor eye injuries and ailments can elect to use their regular opticians, which takes load off both GPs and A&E and, in many cases, will likely result in a better quality of opthalmic care.
Mark Benson said:
Efbe said:
Privitisation is awesome
really not sure why we aren't embracing it more. It gives us free money now with absolutely no problems later down the line.
NHS PFI:
This is the real scandal in the NHS; the vast sums of taxpayers money committed to private businesses with far too few checks and balances and done off balance so it wasn't included in the government spending figures allowing Gordon and Tony to avoid real scrutiny until they were safely out of the way.really not sure why we aren't embracing it more. It gives us free money now with absolutely no problems later down the line.
NHS PFI:
It's clear money needed spending, but they hosed it at the private sector and got such poor VFM in the process.
Why can't they just reign in these charges. It is quite clear we have paid more than we should have already.
If it was any individual in this situation, you would be able to come to an arrangment.
Efbe said:
Mark Benson said:
Efbe said:
Privitisation is awesome
really not sure why we aren't embracing it more. It gives us free money now with absolutely no problems later down the line.
NHS PFI:
This is the real scandal in the NHS; the vast sums of taxpayers money committed to private businesses with far too few checks and balances and done off balance so it wasn't included in the government spending figures allowing Gordon and Tony to avoid real scrutiny until they were safely out of the way.really not sure why we aren't embracing it more. It gives us free money now with absolutely no problems later down the line.
NHS PFI:
It's clear money needed spending, but they hosed it at the private sector and got such poor VFM in the process.
Why can't they just reign in these charges. It is quite clear we have paid more than we should have already.
If it was any individual in this situation, you would be able to come to an arrangment.
Better to keep schtum and hope no-one notices. Look! Brexit!
Efbe said:
government is government though.
Why can't they just reign in these charges. It is quite clear we have paid more than we should have already.
If it was any individual in this situation, you would be able to come to an arrangment.
Why would counter party want to renegotiate deal that's very good for them?Why can't they just reign in these charges. It is quite clear we have paid more than we should have already.
If it was any individual in this situation, you would be able to come to an arrangment.
It's all well and good to charge for GP visits, A&E attendances etc, but would the massive increase in bureaucracy and costs involved in administering the system actually be value for money?
And I'm sure that the Daily Mail would have a field day - "NHS takes on thousands of extra pen-pushers!"
SD.
And I'm sure that the Daily Mail would have a field day - "NHS takes on thousands of extra pen-pushers!"
SD.
Efbe said:
jjlynn27 said:
Why would counter party want to renegotiate deal that's very good for them?
because otherwise they don't et a penny.Same as happens for individuals with balooning finance issues.
Quite obviously the initial deals were sh!t, sounds missold to the NHS to me!
jjlynn27 said:
Efbe said:
jjlynn27 said:
Why would counter party want to renegotiate deal that's very good for them?
because otherwise they don't et a penny.Same as happens for individuals with balooning finance issues.
Quite obviously the initial deals were sh!t, sounds missold to the NHS to me!
Sheepshanks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Efbe said:
jjlynn27 said:
Why would counter party want to renegotiate deal that's very good for them?
because otherwise they don't et a penny.Same as happens for individuals with balooning finance issues.
Quite obviously the initial deals were sh!t, sounds missold to the NHS to me!
Edited by Digga on Wednesday 18th January 12:08
edh said:
Some context
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/15/cr...
"Department of Health (DH) figures show that the amount of its funding that has gone to “independent sector providers” more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, Labour’s last year in power, to £8.7bn in 2015-16.
Slow-release privatisation has also seen the percentage of the DH budget finding its way into private hands rising from 4% in 2009-10 to 8% in the last financial year."
Are these privatizations value for money.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/15/cr...
"Department of Health (DH) figures show that the amount of its funding that has gone to “independent sector providers” more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, Labour’s last year in power, to £8.7bn in 2015-16.
Slow-release privatisation has also seen the percentage of the DH budget finding its way into private hands rising from 4% in 2009-10 to 8% in the last financial year."
One of our local GP's has tenders from private contractors for cataract surgery and hip replacements.
Although I don't know the costs I can't imagine them being sent privately unless one of two conditions are met.
1. Cheaper than on NHS thus saving money
2. NHS waiting list too long for patient/GP.
My mother has used both of these services (1 hip, 2 cataracts) and is delighted with the quality of care, surroundings and food. All the operations were performed by NHS doctors 'moonlighting' in a private facility.
Don't forget opticians and dentists have been 'privatised' for about 20 years
voyds9 said:
Are these privatizations value for money.
One of our local GP's has tenders from private contractors for cataract surgery and hip replacements.
Although I don't know the costs I can't imagine them being sent privately unless one of two conditions are met.
1. Cheaper than on NHS thus saving money
2. NHS waiting list too long for patient/GP.
My mother has used both of these services (1 hip, 2 cataracts) and is delighted with the quality of care, surroundings and food. All the operations were performed by NHS doctors 'moonlighting' in a private facility.
In some ways that's terrifying - we'll end up with completely dis-integrated health care.One of our local GP's has tenders from private contractors for cataract surgery and hip replacements.
Although I don't know the costs I can't imagine them being sent privately unless one of two conditions are met.
1. Cheaper than on NHS thus saving money
2. NHS waiting list too long for patient/GP.
My mother has used both of these services (1 hip, 2 cataracts) and is delighted with the quality of care, surroundings and food. All the operations were performed by NHS doctors 'moonlighting' in a private facility.
I suppose it's always happened though. Our local doctor does minor procedures himself at the cottage hospital and I notice the practice has its own physio now.
One of my daughters does "talking therapies" stuff, contracted to doctors though the local clinical commissioning group - but some doctors make their own arrangements, some even using volunteers. This is obviously great from a cost point of view, but it's completely unsupervised which is a bit iffy when you're messing with people's heads.
Digga said:
Sheepshanks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Efbe said:
jjlynn27 said:
Why would counter party want to renegotiate deal that's very good for them?
because otherwise they don't et a penny.Same as happens for individuals with balooning finance issues.
Quite obviously the initial deals were sh!t, sounds missold to the NHS to me!
Edited by Digga on Wednesday 18th January 12:08
A few words from the government and the banks would probably drop the repayments. Following PPI the banks are on defensive mode when it comes to government decisions. >£40bn already dropped on that.
I can't find the specific wording of the PFIs, however I would have thought one form of recourse is that the government arranged for these PFIs, which were then placed onto the individual PCTs.
Edited by Efbe on Wednesday 18th January 16:27
IANAL but I don't think getting out of PFI is possible, and even if it was, the consequences of govt going back on contract would be significant. The choice, as mentioned before are;
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture.
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture. jjlynn27 said:
IANAL but I don't think getting out of PFI is possible, and even if it was, the consequences of govt going back on contract would be significant. The choice, as mentioned before are;
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can bh and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture.
How about £250k on a clock that you need a science degree to work out what the time is?1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/108648...
alfie2244 said:
jjlynn27 said:
IANAL but I don't think getting out of PFI is possible, and even if it was, the consequences of govt going back on contract would be significant. The choice, as mentioned before are;
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can bh and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture.
How about £250k on a clock that you need a science degree to work out what the time is?1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/108648...
hed about. The cretins spunking money on such frippery should be dismissed/severely reprimanded and the money recouped (from wages or pension depending on the amount). I agree with jj's 3 options. With a budget deficit and huge debt to pay down, (2) needs to happen first. And it needs hacking away at wholesale.
Murph7355 said:
alfie2244 said:
jjlynn27 said:
IANAL but I don't think getting out of PFI is possible, and even if it was, the consequences of govt going back on contract would be significant. The choice, as mentioned before are;
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can bh and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture.
How about £250k on a clock that you need a science degree to work out what the time is?1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/108648...
hed about. The cretins spunking money on such frippery should be dismissed/severely reprimanded and the money recouped (from wages or pension depending on the amount). I agree with jj's 3 options. With a budget deficit and huge debt to pay down, (2) needs to happen first. And it needs hacking away at wholesale.
The only thing I would add is to (again) point out that the demographic squeeze is temporary, but is also symptomatic of a failure to provide sufficient care for the elderly - thereby transferring the burden to GPs, A&E and other hospital departments whose beds are blocked.
Digga said:
Murph7355 said:
alfie2244 said:
jjlynn27 said:
IANAL but I don't think getting out of PFI is possible, and even if it was, the consequences of govt going back on contract would be significant. The choice, as mentioned before are;
1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can bh and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture.
How about £250k on a clock that you need a science degree to work out what the time is?1) Increase spending
2) Reduce scope
3) all of the above
Or we can b
h and moan about inefficiencies and get enraged about how some trust somewhere spent £10k on an ice sculpture. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/108648...
hed about. The cretins spunking money on such frippery should be dismissed/severely reprimanded and the money recouped (from wages or pension depending on the amount). I agree with jj's 3 options. With a budget deficit and huge debt to pay down, (2) needs to happen first. And it needs hacking away at wholesale.
The only thing I would add is to (again) point out that the demographic squeeze is temporary, but is also symptomatic of a failure to provide sufficient care for the elderly - thereby transferring the burden to GPs, A&E and other hospital departments whose beds are blocked.
If supply and demand were managed by the same people decisions could be made about allocation of funds, distribution of services and staffing levels.
It's probably be a clusterf
k though.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff