- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

[RDMcG]

It seems strange to me that there is a recurrent theme on PH about the loss of driving feel, the move to electronics/flappy paddles/electronics/self driving and so on. Part of that theme has been that it would be MUCH better to have a slower, more fun, all manual car as the more powerful cars are not engaging.

Enter the Toyota GT86.

Great reviews, high fun factor. Nobody bought it.

Has PH become a dinosaur, out of touch with ordinary drivers?. Or it is that the journos no longer represent the buying public who just want commuter cars or SUVS?.... Sad that this was a failure:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/toyota/toyota-gt86...

[TooMany2cvs]

RDMcG said:

Enter the Toyota GT86.

Great reviews, high fun factor. Nobody bought it.

Sad that this was a failure:

HowManyLeft says north of 5,500 on the road, including BRZs.

I wouldn't call that a failure.

[Mike335i]

Most buyers seem to want ease and image, hence so many sporty looking automatics with 2.0 diesel engines and 19" alloys. Will look nice on their instagram (or whatever the vacuous use these days).

The gt86 should have been the answer, but it was not powerful enough to compete with the hot hatches and so it was never going to win over the fickle. It was also too expensive, I believe that if it had been sub £20k it would have been a winner.

[dxg]

It also doesn't have the image, sadly. No one can look at it and say it's a genuinely pretty car.

And now that stories of the engine being weak are starting to emerge, and think it's fate s sealed.

[kambites]

I suppose I'm vaguely the target market; for me the biggest problem with the car is that the rear seats are next to useless so it offers very little over a two-seater and if I can live with a two-seater I want a damned slight less weight to lug around.

It really needs a better steering setup too, it may have better than average feel by modern standards but it's still woeful.


I have no problems whatsoever with the straight-line performance, although the odd dip in the middle of the torque curve needs sorting out.

Edited by kambites on Friday 13th January 08:21

[anonymous-user]

The GT86 is slow....

[s m]

kambites said:

I suppose I'm vaguely the target market; for me the biggest problem with the car is that the rear seats are next to useless

I was very interested in this as a new car.
Really struggled to get a test drive from the local dealers - they didn't seem interested at all when car came out and I certainly was never offered a car for a day or weekend to try like many on here.
The rear space was the killer for me , it would have needed to accommodate a growing 10yo and 8yo in the rear with me driving as I would have wanted to use it on UK/European driving hols. It wouldn't have done it comfortably. In the end I bought a new warm hatch and low miles 325ti Compact with the same performance but better rear seat accommodation

I liked the car though, just not enough rear room for me personally

[Escort3500]

Learn2MergeInTurn said:

The GT86 is slow....

So's the MX5 but that doesn't stop it selling well. Maybe it's a design thing; the MX5 is better looking.

[ecsrobin]

Heavy - 1250kg
Slow - 0-62 7.6sec
36mpg
2 practical seats
Expensive £28k for an average spec
Cheap interior

[Conscript]

Mike335i said:

Most buyers seem to want ease and image, hence so many sporty looking automatics with 2.0 diesel engines and 19" alloys. Will look nice on their instagram (or whatever the vacuous use these days).

The gt86 should have been the answer, but it was not powerful enough to compete with the hot hatches and so it was never going to win over the fickle. It was also too expensive, I believe that if it had been sub £20k it would have been a winner.

I'm not sure the overall price was too bad, but I understand the lease deals just weren't competitive, and that's how most people seem to finance their cars nowadays. If you took a look at the performance figures, why would you bother when something like the Golf R is available for a cheaper monthly outlay?*

* Last time I heard.

[battered]

The GT86 is the only modern car other than the F type that has made me stop and say "wow" in the last 5 years. All the hot/warm hatches and German midrange saloons are "ho hum" in comparison.

I still want one, when the prices drop I and a good few others will be all over them.

[ecsrobin]

Escort3500 said:

Learn2MergeInTurn said:

The GT86 is slow....

So's the MX5 but that doesn't stop it selling well. Maybe it's a design thing; the MX5 is better looking.

There's a reason though:

Weight - 1050kg
130bhp (or 160bhp)
0-60 - 8.3 (or 7.3)
MPG 47.1 (40.9)


And finally price. For the 1.6 mx5 £18,500 for the 2.0 £23,700.

That's a big saving over the gt86

[culpz]

You have to remember that car enthusiasts are in the minority. Then split that down into sub-sections where you will find an even smaller portion of individuals who want a pure driving experience and a car to match that. RWD, manual gearbox, N/A, lightweight, etc.

The numbers that Toyota sold on the GT86 are probably about right really. They didn't set out to create a car that caters to all marques. They can leave pretty much the rest of their car range to it for that. They knew exactly who their target audience was from the off.

To cut a long story short, i genuinely don't believe that Toyota expected the GT86 to sell in huge numbers when it was rolled out.

Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 08:51

[Conscript]

ecsrobin said:

Heavy - 1250kg
Slow - 0-62 7.6sec
36mpg
2 practical seats
Expensive £28k for an average spec
Cheap interior

Is 1250KG really that heavy for a car in this class?

But regardless, this post kind of proves the point. Summing up the whole car based on the performance. I don't really care about my 0-62 time when I go for a drive on a Sunday morning, but other people do and so write the car off when there's hatchbacks which offer better figures.

[rallycross]

The simple answer is probably just no mega cheap lease deals.
Dig more deeply and for a proper petrol head the car is flawed by feeling gutless, the performance somehow lets it down.

You'd have to drive one for a few days ( I hired one for 5 days )and was left unimpressed, frustratingly gutless engine which sounds like a hairdryer, I hoping for something that would give me the same fun as my old Integra type R Dc2 but sadly not - much as I really wanted to like it. ( note I am used to driving low powered cars so it's not a case of me expecting it to be a rocket ship that's not what I expected).

Edited by rallycross on Friday 13th January 08:57

[spaximus]

They should get on and build the controvertible version that they have shown around the shows. A very pretty car and a genuine alternative to the MX5.

I called Toyota to ask when it was coming and it is still a concept.

[Conscript]

ecsrobin said:

Escort3500 said:

Learn2MergeInTurn said:

The GT86 is slow....

So's the MX5 but that doesn't stop it selling well. Maybe it's a design thing; the MX5 is better looking.

There's a reason though:

Weight - 1050kg
130bhp (or 160bhp)
0-60 - 8.3 (or 7.3)
MPG 47.1 (40.9)


And finally price. For the 1.6 mx5 £18,500 for the 2.0 £23,700.

That's a big saving over the gt86

So the bhp/tonne figure is still slightly better than the MX5 (based on the 2.0l 160bhp).
The performance of both cars really is very similar, slightly in the GT86s favour. As for the MPG figures, I'd contest their accuracy if those are combined...I average 36MPG in the GT86 compared to the MX5 I had before which averaged 33-34MPG.

I'd say the biggest advantage the MX5 has is the ability to drop the roof, which really is a big plus for most.

EDIT: Disregard my comments about the MPG, I was comparing against the MK3, sorry. I thought the MK4 2.0 was more than 160BHP though?

Edited by Conscript on Friday 13th January 08:57

[kambites]

Conscript said:

Is 1250KG really that heavy for a car in this class?

Well the mk4 MX5 and mk3 MR2 are both under a tonne, and the uselessness of the rear seats in the GT86 make them the same class, IMO.

I agree that numbers don't matter in themselves, but the GT86's problem is that it feels heavy and rather lifeless compared to its competition. At least to me.

Edited by kambites on Friday 13th January 08:57

[aww999]

I'm a big Toyota fan, and have had numerous Supras and MR2s. Always wanted an AE86 and loved the idea of the GT86. I sat in one at the weekend whilst ordering a car for my wife at the local Toyota dealership, which just confirmed why I don't own one. It had a great driving position for me, and I liked the interior. However, there was less than an inch between the back of my seat and the start of the rear seats.

So, disregarding the performance aspect, it's too impractical to be an every day car for me (two kids in car seats), and too sensible for a weekend car - if I get the chance to go for a drive with no kids in tow then why would I want a pair of redundant rear seats slowing me down?

So, I ended up with a Cupra 290 for school runs, shopping trips and commuting, and an Exige S for weekend fun. The fact that both are MILES faster than the GT86 means I don't really feel like I've missed out...

[RobM77]

RDMcG said:

It seems strange to me that there is a recurrent theme on PH about the loss of driving feel, the move to electronics/flappy paddles/electronics/self driving and so on. Part of that theme has been that it would be MUCH better to have a slower, more fun, all manual car as the more powerful cars are not engaging.

Enter the Toyota GT86.

Great reviews, high fun factor. Nobody bought it.

Has PH become a dinosaur, out of touch with ordinary drivers?. Or it is that the journos no longer represent the buying public who just want commuter cars or SUVS?.... Sad that this was a failure:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/toyota/toyota-gt86...

The simple reason for that is that people like me are in a minority. That explains most of it. Most people don't care about driving, some people like fast cars and an even smaller minority love driving for the sake of it and aren't that bothered by performance.

Furthermore, two problems remain:

• People who enjoy driving as an activity in the same way people enjoy skiing, surfing, mountain biking etc tend to also enjoy skiing, surfing and mountain biking (funny that!). This means they need roof bars, which the GT86 didn't have.

• People who love driving that much often have a second car, either for weekends, track days or racing. Once you have that car, many people don't have enough spare cash for a new or nearly new car like a GT86.

The only reason I don't have a GT86 is I need to carry boards and bikes around and tow my racing car in a covered trailer.