Stop Violence on NHS Staff: Sign the petition Now

Stop Violence on NHS Staff: Sign the petition Now

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Discussion

AMG Merc

Original Poster:

11,954 posts

252 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
UK Gov's response here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/176138?re...

It seemed unclear previously that NHS workers and the like were already considered subject to the same "aggravating factor" treatment as the police, fire and miltary.

"The fact that the victim is providing a service to the public is listed as an aggravating factor in sentencing guidelines which courts have a statutory duty to follow. As such, offenders who assault someone providing a service to the public may face a higher sentence than that for other assaults."

So now we know. Some here will consider the petition a waste of time but it is now logged as an action forever and can always be referred to, which isn't a bad thing.

Now if someone wants to start a petition to get lazy ass judges to deliver the maximum sentencing - changing "may" face to "will automatically face"...

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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AMG Merc said:
Now if someone wants to start a petition to get lazy ass judges to deliver the maximum sentencing - changing "may" face to "will automatically face"...
You might want automatic rubber stamp sentencing- I'd rather have all the factors considered before sentence is decided.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Rovinghawk said:
You might want automatic rubber stamp sentencing- I'd rather have all the factors considered before sentence is decided.
That certainly seems more reasonable!

loose cannon

6,029 posts

240 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
The law for assault should be the same across the board, there shouldn't be any difference for anyone regardless
Of occupation sex or social status, confused

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Do we have a list of professions setting out the the differing level of criminality involved regarding assaults?

For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -

nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker

It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Do we have a list of professions setting out the the differing level of criminality involved regarding assaults?

For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -

nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker

It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!

AMG Merc

Original Poster:

11,954 posts

252 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!
Agree, Public servants - exactly the point. It is the government's primary objective to safeguard its citizens which is why I feel there should be adjusted rules like these.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.

But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?

The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
AMG Merc said:
sidicks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!
Agree, Public servants - exactly the point. It is the government's primary objective to safeguard its citizens which is why I feel there should be adjusted rules like these.
100% disagree.

If it's wrong to assault an NHS worker (which it absolutely is), the punishment should be exactly the same for assaulting ANY person.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.

But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?

The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.
Equally?

Do you have the lawful right to refuse service if you feel that you are too busy? Or you simply don't like the client?



AMG Merc

Original Poster:

11,954 posts

252 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
100% disagree.
We know wink

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Spitting or assaulting someone is the same spit/assault no matter what one's profession.

The penalty for such action should therefore be the same.

some of you might wish to climb down from your self-erected lofty pedestal.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Eric Mc said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?

How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.

But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?

The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.
Equally?

Do you have the lawful right to refuse service if you feel that you are too busy? Or you simply don't like the client?
Absolutely irrelevant point.

Why should that make an assault on me different to an assault on a nurse?

You could even make a point that those who enter the "emergency services" professions might factor that into deciding whether they want to get into that line of work.

I wouldn't actually agree with that latter point myself, but people who decide to do these jobs are aware of what they may face. Why should the law differ for them compared to others? They may even have special training in how to deal with such matters - whereas a person like me wouldn't.

Maybe I could argue that accountants should be protected by special laws precisely because of their lack of skills in dealing with violent clients.

You can argue for special treatment in all sorts of silly ways - and silly petitions - if you want to.


jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely irrelevant point.

Why should that make an assault on me different to an assault on a nurse?

You could even make a point that those who enter the "emergency services" professions might factor that into deciding whether they want to get into that line of work.

I wouldn't actually agree with that latter point myself, but people who decide to do these jobs are aware of what they may face. Why should the law differ for them compared to others? They may even have special training in how to deal with such matters - whereas a person like me wouldn't.

Maybe I could argue that accountants should be protected by special laws precisely because of their lack of skills in dealing with violent clients.

You can argue for special treatment in all sorts of silly ways - and silly petitions - if you want to.
You could argue many things. It wouldn't make them any less ridiculous.

It's very relevant.

I can refuse to deal with customers who I believe will be difficult. I can refuse to deal with angry clients. I can refuse to deal with customers who were previously violent/abusive.
They don't have that choice.

I did all of that in the past, and my governing body didn't get involved.

As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?


sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
Frontline public servants have a right to some additional protection, in my view.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
We have enough laws. We have judges who can use discretion as to level of sentencing according to the full facts. We don't need to alter anything just for the sake of it.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Absolutely.

Maybe we should start a petition to stop irrelevant petitions.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely.

Maybe we should start a petition to stop irrelevant petitions.
That would be the first one I sign!

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely.

Maybe we should start a petition to stop irrelevant petitions.
You should start that. Or you could just choose to ignore ones that don't concern you.

I'll ask one more time;

Do you think that frontline medical staff should have the same rights as you do to refuse service?

Feel free to dodge for the third time.