Stop Violence on NHS Staff: Sign the petition Now
Discussion
UK Gov's response here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/176138?re...
It seemed unclear previously that NHS workers and the like were already considered subject to the same "aggravating factor" treatment as the police, fire and miltary.
"The fact that the victim is providing a service to the public is listed as an aggravating factor in sentencing guidelines which courts have a statutory duty to follow. As such, offenders who assault someone providing a service to the public may face a higher sentence than that for other assaults."
So now we know. Some here will consider the petition a waste of time but it is now logged as an action forever and can always be referred to, which isn't a bad thing.
Now if someone wants to start a petition to get lazy ass judges to deliver the maximum sentencing - changing "may" face to "will automatically face"...
It seemed unclear previously that NHS workers and the like were already considered subject to the same "aggravating factor" treatment as the police, fire and miltary.
"The fact that the victim is providing a service to the public is listed as an aggravating factor in sentencing guidelines which courts have a statutory duty to follow. As such, offenders who assault someone providing a service to the public may face a higher sentence than that for other assaults."
So now we know. Some here will consider the petition a waste of time but it is now logged as an action forever and can always be referred to, which isn't a bad thing.
Now if someone wants to start a petition to get lazy ass judges to deliver the maximum sentencing - changing "may" face to "will automatically face"...
AMG Merc said:
Now if someone wants to start a petition to get lazy ass judges to deliver the maximum sentencing - changing "may" face to "will automatically face"...
You might want automatic rubber stamp sentencing- I'd rather have all the factors considered before sentence is decided.Do we have a list of professions setting out the the differing level of criminality involved regarding assaults?
For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -
nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker
It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.
For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -
nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker
It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.
Eric Mc said:
Do we have a list of professions setting out the the differing level of criminality involved regarding assaults?
For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -
nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker
It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.
Honourable?For instance which of the following ranks higher in the following list of professions in respect of assaults on the person -
nurse
doctor
hospital cleaner
policeman
fireman
street cleaner
scientist
engineer
architect
accountant
solicitor
politician
banker
It seems to me that such a petition seems to think that certain professions are more honurable than others and therefore anybody who assaults someone from that profession has committed a more serious crime than if they assaulted someone from a profession that perhaps is considered less worthy.
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
sidicks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?
The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.
AMG Merc said:
sidicks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
It certainly seems reasonable to me to have some additional penalties for assaulting someone carrying out a public service. The appropriate definition is quite important though!How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
If it's wrong to assault an NHS worker (which it absolutely is), the punishment should be exactly the same for assaulting ANY person.
Eric Mc said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?
The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.
Do you have the lawful right to refuse service if you feel that you are too busy? Or you simply don't like the client?
jjlynn27 said:
Eric Mc said:
jjlynn27 said:
Honourable?
How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
Never.How many times have you been attacked or spat at by your clients? How many times have you had to deal with a drunken client to whom you can't tell to fk off and that his business is not welcome?
But why should a different set of laws protect me compared to someone else?
The whole point of law is that it should treat everybody equally.
Do you have the lawful right to refuse service if you feel that you are too busy? Or you simply don't like the client?
Why should that make an assault on me different to an assault on a nurse?
You could even make a point that those who enter the "emergency services" professions might factor that into deciding whether they want to get into that line of work.
I wouldn't actually agree with that latter point myself, but people who decide to do these jobs are aware of what they may face. Why should the law differ for them compared to others? They may even have special training in how to deal with such matters - whereas a person like me wouldn't.
Maybe I could argue that accountants should be protected by special laws precisely because of their lack of skills in dealing with violent clients.
You can argue for special treatment in all sorts of silly ways - and silly petitions - if you want to.
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely irrelevant point.
Why should that make an assault on me different to an assault on a nurse?
You could even make a point that those who enter the "emergency services" professions might factor that into deciding whether they want to get into that line of work.
I wouldn't actually agree with that latter point myself, but people who decide to do these jobs are aware of what they may face. Why should the law differ for them compared to others? They may even have special training in how to deal with such matters - whereas a person like me wouldn't.
Maybe I could argue that accountants should be protected by special laws precisely because of their lack of skills in dealing with violent clients.
You can argue for special treatment in all sorts of silly ways - and silly petitions - if you want to.
You could argue many things. It wouldn't make them any less ridiculous. Why should that make an assault on me different to an assault on a nurse?
You could even make a point that those who enter the "emergency services" professions might factor that into deciding whether they want to get into that line of work.
I wouldn't actually agree with that latter point myself, but people who decide to do these jobs are aware of what they may face. Why should the law differ for them compared to others? They may even have special training in how to deal with such matters - whereas a person like me wouldn't.
Maybe I could argue that accountants should be protected by special laws precisely because of their lack of skills in dealing with violent clients.
You can argue for special treatment in all sorts of silly ways - and silly petitions - if you want to.
It's very relevant.
I can refuse to deal with customers who I believe will be difficult. I can refuse to deal with angry clients. I can refuse to deal with customers who were previously violent/abusive.
They don't have that choice.
I did all of that in the past, and my governing body didn't get involved.
As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
jjlynn27 said:
As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
Frontline public servants have a right to some additional protection, in my view.jjlynn27 said:
As a doctor/paramedic/nurse, just like police officers, you have to deal with all of the above. You want equality in afforded protection, but do you want them to have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
We have enough laws. We have judges who can use discretion as to level of sentencing according to the full facts. We don't need to alter anything just for the sake of it.Eric Mc said:
Absolutely.
Maybe we should start a petition to stop irrelevant petitions.
You should start that. Or you could just choose to ignore ones that don't concern you.Maybe we should start a petition to stop irrelevant petitions.
I'll ask one more time;
Do you think that frontline medical staff should have the same rights as you do to refuse service?
Feel free to dodge for the third time.
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