Stop Violence on NHS Staff: Sign the petition Now
Discussion
shed driver said:
There are several reasons behind this. There is a widespread feeling of acceptance, expecting that the confused, the drunk and the plain nasty will hit out either verbally or physically. Also knowing that despite using the hospital's reporting system, I will still have to look after that person the next day.
Some patients with severe cognitive problems such as dementia, brain injuries will hit out - it's the only thing they can do when they feel that someone is doing something towards them that they object to. Imagine lying in bed, very confused, scared etc and two people come up to you, mutter something about "cleaning you up" and then proceed to pull your pajamas down and start to wash you. Bad enough if you know what' happening, terrifying if you are unable to understand what they are saying due to a massive stroke.
There is also a reluctance by some clinicians to involve the police when that may impact upon someone's recovery. Detoxing alcoholics may refuse to engage any further with services if they are subject to police involvement - any chance of rehabilitation is then lost.
When I am with students and the question of violence and aggression arises - it's actually part of the current nursing degree syllabus - I always encourage them to report any incident. I jokingly call it the "Tesco Test". If it happened in Tesco to an employee what would happen? How is hospital different?
A lot of relatives cannot believe that their sweet little granny can also be a violent, evil foul mouthed harridan - it's not a great conversation to have explaining that the two burly security guards are sat by her bed to protect the staff, or that the police have had to be called to restrain her after she bit a chunk out of a junior nurse hand. (True story)
There's no one size fits all answer. Maybe report every single incident, push for prosecution in every case and let the CPS decide? Kick out every patient that calls me names or lashes out? Or just accept that this happens, but whatever it is, maybe a few exemplary sentences may deter some.
SD.
Thanks. So in short many of those lashing out are mentally impaired for some reason so are very unlikely to be deterred by a change in sentencing. There is nothing stopping the victim reporting incidents to the police directly but they often choose not to so that won't be effected either. In 30 years of assaults on you a harsher penalty might have been applied to 1 person.Some patients with severe cognitive problems such as dementia, brain injuries will hit out - it's the only thing they can do when they feel that someone is doing something towards them that they object to. Imagine lying in bed, very confused, scared etc and two people come up to you, mutter something about "cleaning you up" and then proceed to pull your pajamas down and start to wash you. Bad enough if you know what' happening, terrifying if you are unable to understand what they are saying due to a massive stroke.
There is also a reluctance by some clinicians to involve the police when that may impact upon someone's recovery. Detoxing alcoholics may refuse to engage any further with services if they are subject to police involvement - any chance of rehabilitation is then lost.
When I am with students and the question of violence and aggression arises - it's actually part of the current nursing degree syllabus - I always encourage them to report any incident. I jokingly call it the "Tesco Test". If it happened in Tesco to an employee what would happen? How is hospital different?
A lot of relatives cannot believe that their sweet little granny can also be a violent, evil foul mouthed harridan - it's not a great conversation to have explaining that the two burly security guards are sat by her bed to protect the staff, or that the police have had to be called to restrain her after she bit a chunk out of a junior nurse hand. (True story)
There's no one size fits all answer. Maybe report every single incident, push for prosecution in every case and let the CPS decide? Kick out every patient that calls me names or lashes out? Or just accept that this happens, but whatever it is, maybe a few exemplary sentences may deter some.
SD.
I don't know what the answer is, it sounds like a dreadful place to work but the fact that fewer than 10% of nhs staff signed the petition would suggest they don't think this is the answer either.
My daughter who is a mental health nurse never mentioned anything about a petition.
Taking patients to court or have the police involved wouldn't help.
Unfortunately it is part of the job and staff expect certain behaviour.All they can do with some patients have at least two people attending.
That is where the shortage of staff comes in.I have attended a few incidents when on security where nurses got hit and we had to control the patient.
Taking patients to court or have the police involved wouldn't help.
Unfortunately it is part of the job and staff expect certain behaviour.All they can do with some patients have at least two people attending.
That is where the shortage of staff comes in.I have attended a few incidents when on security where nurses got hit and we had to control the patient.
AMG Merc said:
fblm said:
but the fact that fewer than 10% of nhs staff signed the petition would suggest they don't think this is the answer either.
Interesting, where did you get this from?fblm said:
AMG Merc said:
fblm said:
but the fact that fewer than 10% of nhs staff signed the petition would suggest they don't think this is the answer either.
Interesting, where did you get this from?Is the real issue that petitions in general are a waste of time ?
People used to stand around in town centres getting people to sign and most people will sign it because it's no effort and it saves having to argue with the person with the pen. Plus, there is no comeback on them even if the do sign.
And online petitions are even worse. There is no effort involved, just two seconds typing and a click or two. Pointless.
People used to stand around in town centres getting people to sign and most people will sign it because it's no effort and it saves having to argue with the person with the pen. Plus, there is no comeback on them even if the do sign.
And online petitions are even worse. There is no effort involved, just two seconds typing and a click or two. Pointless.
fblm said:
jjlynn27 said:
Why would you think that even 5% of NHS staff listens to London-based radio station?
Why would you think that the petition is only open to people who listen to LBC?So, from the top, slowly.
fblm said:
but the fact that fewer than 10% of nhs staff signed the petition would suggest they don't think this is the answer either.
It wouldn't suggest that at all. It would suggest that huge majority didn't have a clue about the existence of the petition. jjlynn27 said:
Already passed 100k so signing or not signing now has zero effect. It's always funny to see numpties adding 'Petition not signed' like anyone gives a.
As one of the so-called numpties ( who has dealt with a considerable amount of violence against NHS staff incidentally) I gave my argued reasons why further law is not necessary. It may even be counter productive. In doing so I also gave my reason for not signing the petition ( before the threshold was reached). My attention was drawn to it by a friend who is a paramedic last week, and I gave the same reasons to her.Do those here not interested in the power of petitions, and posting about not needing a new law, realise that the petiton's aim is not to have a new law created but to have an existing amended? That's all, and for this reason it is possibilty.
Currently verbal or physical assault on Police, Prison staff and Immigration officers enables the aggravating feature addition to kick in. This means the judge can increase the fine or sentence in front of him when the crime is against these workers.
Ok, if some of you think the judiciary is failing that's another matter but why not support an initiative that simply seeks to add medics to the list? What harm can it do?
Currently verbal or physical assault on Police, Prison staff and Immigration officers enables the aggravating feature addition to kick in. This means the judge can increase the fine or sentence in front of him when the crime is against these workers.
Ok, if some of you think the judiciary is failing that's another matter but why not support an initiative that simply seeks to add medics to the list? What harm can it do?
AMG Merc said:
Do those here not interested in the power of petitions, and posting about not needing a new law, realise that the petiton's aim is not to have a new law created but to have an existing amended? That's all, and for this reason it is possibilty.
Currently verbal or physical assault on Police, Prison staff and Immigration officers enables the aggravating feature addition to kick in. This means the judge can increase the fine or sentence in front of him when the crime is against these workers.
Ok, if some of you think the judiciary is failing that's another matter but why not support an initiative that simply seeks to add medics to the list? What harm can it do?
Amending the law effectively creates a new offence.Currently verbal or physical assault on Police, Prison staff and Immigration officers enables the aggravating feature addition to kick in. This means the judge can increase the fine or sentence in front of him when the crime is against these workers.
Ok, if some of you think the judiciary is failing that's another matter but why not support an initiative that simply seeks to add medics to the list? What harm can it do?
Modifying the sentence is pointless if no-one gets charged or convicted under the existing guidelines anyway. There is no additional deterrent effect and as has been mentioned repeatedly in the majority of incidents there are factors such as mental impairment involved.
'What harm can it do?' - What good does it do? It's a detraction from the real issue.
If someone wants to campaign on this the solution to go for isn't a tweak to the law on assault to make a new special case, it's in those responsible for the workplace ensuring where possible that their staff are protected by procedures, training or suitable preventative measures, and ensuring that action is pursued where appropriate to prosecute offenders if an incident does occur. Supermarkets put a lot more effort into protecting their staff and following up incidents than the NHS does, yet apparently it's the law that's at fault here!
fblm said:
It lets people feel good about themselves signing a petition. Extra feel good points if you can tell a bunch of random strangers online that you've signed it too. Share if you support our nurses!
An excellent Trumpesque response (omitting the fact that is has reached Parliament). Well done, not 
jjlynn27 said:
AMG Merc said:
An excellent Trumpesque response (omitting the fact that is has reached Parliament). Well done, not
Thanks for posting the link. I was completely unaware of the petition. Just received an email confirming that it will be debated in the Parliament. AMG Merc said:
An excellent Trumpesque response (omitting the fact that is has reached Parliament). Well done, not
Nah he'd have used the words virtue signalling and sad. Funny thing is I think it actually stands a good chance of being made law. Of course it won't make any difference at all but it's free, means government won't have to debate a real solution like increasing staffing levels and it makes some people feel like they've achieved something. Well done, not Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff