Antithesis of Rolex

[DJMC]

You may recall my son is (now) saving for a Rolex Submariner. I have a Datejust which is a lovely dress watch but I'm now drawn toward the look of the diver type watch, and have seen the recent posts of Westclox and Christopher Ward, plus looked at Seiko, Steinhart etc. All around £250-500 new/used. Slippery slope? Yes, I know! I'd only wear one watch at a time so what is the point of having more than one? The collectors out there will doubtless say "for different occasions" or "it's nice to have them" or "investment".

I've been there with cameras, rifles, saxophones, so I know the pitfalls of starting a "collection". It usually involves "I have to have one of those too because..."

But what of the mysterious world of other, cheaper divers "lookalikes"? (shock, horror!) where the outlay (and risk) is minimal?

I'm put off the brand new "Kahuna" and similar, but in view of the hundreds of different brands that have copied the "Fifty Fathoms" look over the years, there must be many vintage pre-owned cheapies which are well made but just overlooked by all but the very well informed.

So, is there a "newbies" list of brands to avoid?

I'm wary of anything brand new as it's bound to be fresh from China at $8.99 on alibaba or suchlike.

Here are some I've seen, old and new-ish:

Stuhrling
Mervaine
Apeks
Sewor
Weros (anagram of Sewor I just noticed!)
RLT
Benrus
Arlbor
Invicta
Orient

All rubbish so far?

Then you see the Steinhart, CH Ward, and similar "good" brands at £250 pre-owned but who's to say they are genuine? It's "only" £250 but I've no wish to throw this amount away on a fake.

I have bought many, many cameras, rifles, saxophones at bargain prices but that was after research which took many years as I took up each as a hobby which involved both using the items and then collecting. With watches I can't really see them as a "useful" hobby so as to get into them the same way. And without this involvement I'm less likely to do very involved research into all the brands.
Add to that the fact that cameras, rifles, and saxophones don't much get faked and it looks like I'm on to a loser with finding a "bargain" divers watch!

So, anyone care to offer any advice or is it simply down to hundreds of hours of reading up on what's what?

[klmhcp]

DJMC said:

So, anyone care to offer any advice or is it simply down to hundreds of hours of reading up on what's what?

All advice is subjective in this game.

Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.

In other words, don't fk about.

[DJMC]

klmhcp said:

All advice is subjective in this game.

Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.

In other words, don't fk about.

Yes, that's what's stopped me buying anything so far, including the CH Ward C60 Trident 300 which mysteriously reduced in price after I'd left it in my "basket" overnight and received an email from them to remind me the next day...





It looks very nice, and the thread from a few days ago revealed others who rate them, but I'd never heard of the brand before then.

[aquarianone]

Fwiw, I think Orient are pretty decent value for money and wouldn't lump them in with no name knock-offs, just my opinion...

I've got 2 Orients and a Steinhart Pepsi GMT and at their price points think they're pretty decent vfm, not a patch on my Omega PO but def not rubbish tat and i'd rather wear either of them than any fashion brand standard quartz..eg Boss / Armani etc..

Edited by aquarianone on Thursday 19th January 18:39

[warren182]

Seiko skx, or turtle if you want the newer movement with hacking and handwinding. It's iconic, hardwearing, looks great.
It's all the watch most people need!

[andyman_2006]

a Steinhart?

I am seriously considering one, for the money they look superb.

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/gmt...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

For me i'm leaning towards the 2nd link, 44mm. But all of those above look nice.

I also agree with your CHward very nice looking watches, and no doubt underrated.

Delivery is 15.00 euro to uk.

Andy

[kuro]

aquarianone said:

Fwiw, I think Orient are pretty decent value for money and wouldn't lump them in with no name knock-offs, just my opinion...

I've got 2 Orients and a Steinhart Pepsi GMT and at their price points think they're pretty decent vfm, not a patch on my Omega PO but def not rubbish tat and i'd rather wear either of them than any fashion brand standard quartz..eg Boss / Armani etc..

Edited by aquarianone on Thursday 19th January 18:39

I'll second the above. The Orient mako is well regarded in the watch forums. In house auto movement, 200m wr and a quality finish. I bought one a couple of years back and still wear it regularly. Price new appears to have gone up quite a bit since I got mine.

[13m]

NeMiSiS said:

What inexpensive watch would I buy?

I would first need to understand what components it was made up from.

I would then like to research where, who and how it was assembled.

It would need to be accurate,robust,water resistant, automatic and I would need to like how it looks and feels.

How would I find an inexpensive watch with all theses features and boxes ticked........impossible? No.

This one.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orient-Deep-professional...

This is the newer model, easily identified from its older brother by its smaller crown and pusher.

UK dealers are spoiling the watch by being greedy @ > £200 - the listing above is a good European price, yet if you don't mind waiting you can buy this watch sub £100 delivered from China.

Lugs that would make even the ceramic Rolexes blush.

[DJMC]

OK, so Orient is a possible.

What's the difference between Mako, Deep and I've also come across Ray MkI.

I guess there's an "order of merit" as with Rolex.

Thanks for the info so far.

[SirSquidalot]

I fell down the rabbit hole of watches. 4 or so years ago I was an apprentice and after a good first year I got a £100 Xmas bonus. Not huge, but for an apprentice it was. With it I bought an Armani Exchange quartz dress watch from a high street shop. I was made up!

Shortly after this I really began to get the watch bug and started to put any money I had aside into a humble collection. I then went for a Seiko monster in orange. I adored it! So much so I ended up buying another one and customised it myself, then bought a couple of gshocks. Dabbled in a few low end brands and ended up with this lot.



Collectively it's not even worth £500 but to me they are priceless as they all were bought or earnt with my hard work.

Fast forward to last year and I moved out of home and in with my girlfriend, this was obviously a big thing and shortly after I got a decent rise through work and decide it was time to buy one high end piece. My savings had grown nicely and I had my eye on a few Omegas and Tudors, but as I searched online and I fell in loved with a Rolex SeaDweller.

I enquirer after a few but all weren't quite the right deal, until I secured this one with box and papers at a very decent price.



I love it, it means the world to me and it seems to be my perfect watch. I have thought of selling it to fund various daft car ideas but alas I can't let it go.

My advice is just go for what you like, I bought a Rolex because I wanted one. Buy whatever the hell takes your fancy, whether it's a parnis panerai homage, or a full blown high end Swiss watch.

[Budflicker]

andyman_2006 said:

a Steinhart?

I am seriously considering one, for the money they look superb.

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/gmt...

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/oce...

For me i'm leaning towards the 2nd link, 44mm. But all of those above look nice.

I also agree with your CHward very nice looking watches, and no doubt underrated.

Delivery is 15.00 euro to uk.

Andy

I've got a Ocean 44 I'm thinking of selling, let me know if pre-owned is of interest to you?

[Brads67]

Cheapo Sub-alikes ?.

Seiko for sure but I`d be seriously tempted with an Orient Mako

[DJMC]

DJMC said:

OK, so Orient is a possible.

What's the difference between Mako, Deep and I've also come across Ray MkI.

I guess there's an "order of merit" as with Rolex.

Thanks for the info so far.

As I said before, what's the hierarchy here? And the difference in mechanism etc?

I have my eye on a Ray Blue, but is the Mako or Deep better? What others are there in the Orient range???

[traffman]

Doxa are rather good and also a proper divers watch . May be out of your price range though.

Oris , same yet again . It is worth spending a few more quid on something you love rather than saving a couple of hundred and buying something you like.

You'll regret not buying what you really wanted .

Seiko do some really nice divers watches , and are super rugged. Steinhart are absolutely beautiful (350.00 to 450.00 or more).

Buy what you really like and as an investment none of these will make money . Rolex and Patek are about the only watches that hold there value and increase over the years.

Hope this helped.

[DoubleSix]

traffman said:

. Rolex and Patek are about the only watches that hold there value and increase over the years.
.

And that folks is the power of branding...


Corporate golddust.

[wong]

I would recommend a Seiko SKX 007 (probably MX5 equivalent) ~ 150 pounds. Its the start of a slippery slope. It has history and a long tradition of divers watches.
The strap can be changed easily for a differnet look. Then people modify it, changing hands, dials and bezels.

Divers watches. Look for divers 2oom on the dial.
This means it is tested to 250m pressure (125% of 200m), has fluorescent indices and hands and a marker on a unidirectional bezel.

I think Seiko own Orient.

[kuro]

DJMC said:

OK, so Orient is a possible.

What's the difference between Mako, Deep and I've also come across Ray MkI.

I guess there's an "order of merit" as with Rolex.

Thanks for the info so far.

I'm pretty sure the ray, mako etc all use the same movement but in different case designs and sizes. It appears they have now updated the movement to hand wind and hacking which may explain the hike in price.

[andy97]

DJMC said:

klmhcp said:

All advice is subjective in this game.

Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.

In other words, don't fk about.

Yes, that's what's stopped me buying anything so far, including the CH Ward C60 Trident 300 which mysteriously reduced in price after I'd left it in my "basket" overnight and received an email from them to remind me the next day...





It looks very nice, and the thread from a few days ago revealed others who rate them, but I'd never heard of the brand before then.

I have a Christopher Ward C7 which I like but I'm considering a C60 Trident 300 as well. At £160 what's not to like, and why haven't you bought it yet?

If I can get that deal I'm in. In fact I'm probably in at £250

[DJMC]

I've done some research on Orient. Owned by Seiko Epson.

Excellent video here explains the differences:

https://youtu.be/JoVzOY5Q46I

[cbmotorsport]

klmhcp said:

All advice is subjective in this game.

Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.

In other words, don't fk about.

Yup. I bought a Steinhart Ocean One Black to try and scratch the Sub itch. It didn't. If anything it made it worse as I liked the look of the watch, but always felt a bit false as it wasn't the real thing. 2 months after buying the Steinhart, I flipped it (at a loss) and bought a Sub.