Protesting - useful/gets things done or a waste of time?
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I know I'm effectively repeating what I said upthread, but all these current protests are doing is making me think Trump must be doing something right.
How's that work, then? 
Johnnytheboy said:
As a rule I find that the protesting classes have the opposite view to me on everything, so seeing a protest on TV on a subject I have no knowledge on can be a useful way of choosing which side I am on.
If Trump is annoying the kind of people who like protesting about things, he's probably on the right track. I think Trump is a giant c**k, with a temperament totally unsuited to being a leading politician of any Western democratic country, let alone President of the USA. I was disgusted with much of what he said both as part of his campaign and in his 'prior life'
However the various protests actually make me side with Trump more. He has been appointed as president, he will most likely be president for a full term and I can't see how it is anyone's interest for him not to turn out to be a good president
The women's march seemed to have very little to do with womens' issues and everything to do with giving those who didn't vote for Trump a chance to have a go at him. The protests in our country and others about the immigration ban seem quite similar, except the bulk of the people at the protests aren't American and so never had a vote.
I can't see the protests achieving anything whatsoever other than potentially alienating the President of the USA from the UK which is surely a bad thing for the UK and cementing the views of those who support/partially support Trump (or any so called anti-establishment politician) that the media/leftie/luvvi elite are looking down their nose at anyone who doesn't agree with their views.
When you also consider the appalling language and actions of many of the most visible protesters, it seems to counter any moral high ground they might have otherwise been able to take, in turn meaning the protests appear to me as being completely counter productive
However the various protests actually make me side with Trump more. He has been appointed as president, he will most likely be president for a full term and I can't see how it is anyone's interest for him not to turn out to be a good president
The women's march seemed to have very little to do with womens' issues and everything to do with giving those who didn't vote for Trump a chance to have a go at him. The protests in our country and others about the immigration ban seem quite similar, except the bulk of the people at the protests aren't American and so never had a vote.
I can't see the protests achieving anything whatsoever other than potentially alienating the President of the USA from the UK which is surely a bad thing for the UK and cementing the views of those who support/partially support Trump (or any so called anti-establishment politician) that the media/leftie/luvvi elite are looking down their nose at anyone who doesn't agree with their views.
When you also consider the appalling language and actions of many of the most visible protesters, it seems to counter any moral high ground they might have otherwise been able to take, in turn meaning the protests appear to me as being completely counter productive
Johnnytheboy said:
I know I'm effectively repeating what I said upthread, but all these current protests are doing is making me think Trump must be doing something right.
Really? You might be better off assessing Trump on what he does, rather than what someone else thinks of him. Otherwise someone else is forming your opinions for you. Greg66 said:
Really? You might be better off assessing Trump on what he does, rather than what someone else thinks of him. Otherwise someone else is forming your opinions for you.
Whilst I agree with you 100% I don't think that the media or places such as here help massively tbh.People tend to pigeonhole peoples views and ignore the nuances so you seem to end up branded either a "leftie snowflake" or an appalling racist rather than there being something in between.
Johnnytheboy said:
Hoofy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I know I'm effectively repeating what I said upthread, but all these current protests are doing is making me think Trump must be doing something right.
How's that work, then? Johnnytheboy said:
As a rule I find that the protesting classes have the opposite view to me on everything, so seeing a protest on TV on a subject I have no knowledge on can be a useful way of choosing which side I am on.
If Trump is annoying the kind of people who like protesting about things, he's probably on the right track. b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Whilst I agree with you 100% I don't think that the media or places such as here help massively tbh.
People tend to pigeonhole peoples views and ignore the nuances so you seem to end up branded either a "leftie snowflake" or an appalling racist rather than there being something in between.
This is going to get quite boring so pull up an uncomfortable chair...People tend to pigeonhole peoples views and ignore the nuances so you seem to end up branded either a "leftie snowflake" or an appalling racist rather than there being something in between.
I agree that views in the UK and the US are often polarised, actually or by charicature, into two simple extremes. My personal view is that this stems from longstanding institutions such as essentially having two main political parties and a system of debate between them which is adversarial ("you're wrong"; "no, you're wrong"). The same adversarial system exists in our courts.
By contrast European mainland countries have more political parties and often have coalitions building consensus. And their legal systems are inquisitorial (the judge investigates both parties' positions). I'm always struck by the innate resistance European politicians (less so EU ones) have to being cornered into a polar position when interviewed on R4. They tend to moderate their views and aren't afraid to put forward quite nuanced positions (contrast British politicians, where nuance appears to be tantamount to a white flag).
I genuinely think the tendency to polarise is part of our national character ingrained through exposure to generations of adversarial argument.
I usually don't bother with protests/petitions. But this 'Trump is the new Hitler' thing is in danger of getting out of hand so signed the alternative petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844
Hoofy said:
BlackLabel said:
Meanwhile pictures coming in of the great women's march for the 1000s of children sexually exploited in Rotherham.
Similarly, not hearing anything about protests against the treatment of women in certain middle eastern countries.Take the march against Trumps temporary ban on Muslims from certain countries for example, They are whingeing about people being banned from entering America, and respond by calling for the exact same thing (banning someone from entering the UK) that they are protesting against???????
Don't see them protesting about Muslim countries banning people from Israel from entering their countries. Like I said double standards, which just turn their protests into nothing but hot air.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Hoofy said:
BlackLabel said:
Meanwhile pictures coming in of the great women's march for the 1000s of children sexually exploited in Rotherham.
Similarly, not hearing anything about protests against the treatment of women in certain middle eastern countries.Take the march against Trumps temporary ban on Muslims from certain countries for example, They are whingeing about people being banned from entering America, and respond by calling for the exact same thing (banning someone from entering the UK) that they are protesting against???????
Don't see them protesting about Muslim countries banning people from Israel from entering their countries. Like I said double standards, which just turn their protests into nothing but hot air.
hyphen said:
I usually don't bother with protests/petitions. But this 'Trump is the new Hitler' thing is in danger of getting out of hand so signed the alternative petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844
Done, thanksHoofy said:
I can't help think today's protests around the world are a waste of everyone's time not to mention taxpayer's money as extra police are needed (and staff to potentially fix any vandalism).
Am I wrong?
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/donald-...Am I wrong?
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn't comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday."
Note bottom of first column - "Trump team also concerned thousands of British people would take to streets in protest when he visits UK"
To answer the original question, yes, protesting does make a difference.
samoht said:
Hoofy said:
I can't help think today's protests around the world are a waste of everyone's time not to mention taxpayer's money as extra police are needed (and staff to potentially fix any vandalism).
Am I wrong?
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/donald-...Am I wrong?
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn't comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday."
Note bottom of first column - "Trump team also concerned thousands of British people would take to streets in protest when he visits UK"
To answer the original question, yes, protesting does make a difference.
Where were the silly tw*ts when many Muslim countries banned Israelis from entering their countries? Where were the silly tw*ts, When Obama banned people from the same list of countries from entering the US for SIX months?
Where were the silly tw*ts when many people died under trucks in France and Germany? Where were the silly tw*ts when holiday makers were gunned down a beach recently? Where were the silly tw*ts when they should have been marching against The FMG, the stoning of gays, the making women into second class citizens advocated by a certain religion? Where were the tw*ts when many died on 9/11 or in the London bombings?
Yet here we have a US President who is doing exactly what he said he would do, in the run up to the US elections, and now all the snowflakes want to come out in protest against him visiting the UK, and doing exactly the same thing that they themselves are protesting about, namely banning certain people from entering another country. Double standards or what?
so yes protesting can make a difference, and in this case makes people even more determined to ensure that the opposite of what the biased, selective, snowflakes want is what actually happens.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Wednesday 1st February 11:08
samoht said:
Hoofy said:
I can't help think today's protests around the world are a waste of everyone's time not to mention taxpayer's money as extra police are needed (and staff to potentially fix any vandalism).
Am I wrong?
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/donald-...Am I wrong?
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn't comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday."
Note bottom of first column - "Trump team also concerned thousands of British people would take to streets in protest when he visits UK"
To answer the original question, yes, protesting does make a difference.
Hoofy said:
samoht said:
Hoofy said:
I can't help think today's protests around the world are a waste of everyone's time not to mention taxpayer's money as extra police are needed (and staff to potentially fix any vandalism).
Am I wrong?
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/donald-...Am I wrong?
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn't comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday."
Note bottom of first column - "Trump team also concerned thousands of British people would take to streets in protest when he visits UK"
To answer the original question, yes, protesting does make a difference.
Maybe the royals are a bit smarter than they get credit for and their position is going to be that Brian and not Brenda will host the SV if May insists on it going ahead. Trump will not be comfortable with having to deal with Brian and diplomatic flu may come into play.
Hoofy said:
Ah, well, it certainly makes a difference then but not in the way the protesters want. Sure, they're signing a petition to say that they want him banned from the UK but that's only because of what he does. It won't stop him signing executive orders or encourage him to reverse them.
IIRC the big petition was to refuse him a full state visit not to ban him from the UK.If Liz can host Mugabe, Assad, Ceaușescu, Xi Jinping, Putin, Modi and other dictators, murderers and war criminals I'm sure she can handle the Donald - although it is sweet of the protesters to say that deep down they are doing all of this because they don't want to embarrass the Queen.
BlackLabel said:
If Liz can host Mugabe, Assad, Ceau?escu, Xi Jinping, Putin, Modi and other dictators, murderers and war criminals I'm sure she can handle the Donald - although it is sweet of the protesters to say that deep down they are doing all of this because they don't want to embarrass the Queen.
It did occur to me that if anyone can judge the character of a world leader and offer our govt some advice then Liz (who has met everyone from Blair to Eisenhower and as you say, a great many others) is as good a choice as any.I'm not a monarchist by any stretch, but I really hope she can keep her marbles for another decade, we're somewhat short of political giants right now.
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