Protesting - useful/gets things done or a waste of time?
Discussion
glazbagun said:
BlackLabel said:
If Liz can host Mugabe, Assad, Ceau?escu, Xi Jinping, Putin, Modi and other dictators, murderers and war criminals I'm sure she can handle the Donald - although it is sweet of the protesters to say that deep down they are doing all of this because they don't want to embarrass the Queen.
It did occur to me that if anyone can judge the character of a world leader and offer our govt some advice then Liz (who has met everyone from Blair to Eisenhower and as you say, a great many others) is as good a choice as any.I'm not a monarchist by any stretch, but I really hope she can keep her marbles for another decade, we're somewhat short of political giants right now.
I think, assuming her physical and mental health hold out, meeting a head of state that hasn't committed numerous violations of human rights and murderous atrocities won't prove to be all that trying.
He is simply brash and lacking polish.
Charles is far too engaged in pursuing his new religion.
glazbagun said:
It did occur to me that if anyone can judge the character of a world leader and offer our govt some advice then Liz (who has met everyone from Blair to Eisenhower and as you say, a great many others) is as good a choice as any.
I'm not a monarchist by any stretch, but I really hope she can keep her marbles for another decade, we're somewhat short of political giants right now.
As someone who is a monarchist I'd like to commend your pragmatism despite your contrary beliefs.I'm not a monarchist by any stretch, but I really hope she can keep her marbles for another decade, we're somewhat short of political giants right now.
Many forget that behind the queening & waving she's a very shrewd & experienced cookie.
Everyone has the right to protest and it does work in some cases. But even when it does not it can draw peoples attention to situations that may be wrong and this can lead to change for the better.
Unions work as well. I voted to strike on an issue last year and it got the desired result. I will fight tooth and nail to retain these rights.
Unions work as well. I voted to strike on an issue last year and it got the desired result. I will fight tooth and nail to retain these rights.
Everyone has the right to protest.
I agree it can "raise awareness" of an issue. That awareness, of course, may be to agree or disagree quite fundamentally.
But it changes nothing without voting. It's voting that makes a difference. Each time you go into the voting booth and put a cross on a piece of paper you are changing the world.
What so many protesters and campaigners seem to forget is that you have to get people to agree with you, you have to persuade and inform, so that maybe, just maybe they'll put that cross next to a name or decision you wanted.
They also forget that they are most likely going to fail if their argument doesn't wash.
Finally I will say that most campaigners and protesters to me have one, dull, boring, irritating aspect in common to their requirements: they want me to pay for it.
I agree it can "raise awareness" of an issue. That awareness, of course, may be to agree or disagree quite fundamentally.
But it changes nothing without voting. It's voting that makes a difference. Each time you go into the voting booth and put a cross on a piece of paper you are changing the world.
What so many protesters and campaigners seem to forget is that you have to get people to agree with you, you have to persuade and inform, so that maybe, just maybe they'll put that cross next to a name or decision you wanted.
They also forget that they are most likely going to fail if their argument doesn't wash.
Finally I will say that most campaigners and protesters to me have one, dull, boring, irritating aspect in common to their requirements: they want me to pay for it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4200272/92...
A study of Berlin left wing activists arrested for politically motivated crimes found 92% live with their parents.
A study of Berlin left wing activists arrested for politically motivated crimes found 92% live with their parents.
Another protest today. An impressive turnout but what will it achieve?
"TENS of thousands of people have flooded the streets of London as part of a huge protest against government cuts to the NHS.
Organisers have called the demonstration as a rallying call to save the health service as “more austerity in the NHS represents a real risk to the safety of patients and the service”."
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/ne...
"TENS of thousands of people have flooded the streets of London as part of a huge protest against government cuts to the NHS.
Organisers have called the demonstration as a rallying call to save the health service as “more austerity in the NHS represents a real risk to the safety of patients and the service”."
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/ne...
As I've said in other threads lately, how much extra tax do these people think we should all pay?
10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
Johnnytheboy said:
As I've said in other threads lately, how much extra tax do these people think we should all pay?
10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
They also don't seem to understand the difference between a 'cut' and a 'real terms' increase!!10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
sidicks said:
Johnnytheboy said:
As I've said in other threads lately, how much extra tax do these people think we should all pay?
10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
They also don't seem to understand the difference between a 'cut' and a 'real terms' increase!!10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
When I point out to them that this pot of money actually comes from the taxes that us mugs pay they refuse to believe it!
This is why I hold 'these people' in such disdain!
Funkycoldribena said:
Johnnytheboy said:
As I've said in other threads lately, how much extra tax do these people think we should all pay?
10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
Shouldn't pay anymore seeing as we can afford the 50 billion Eu exit bill and overseas aid.Use that first,it'll be a start.10%? 20%? 50%?
The public sector would still want more.
Maybe the protesting classes only think "the rich" should pay more, perhaps higher rate taxpayers, but maybe they don't realise how many NHS employees this would encompass...
I'm happy to pay more tax if I know they aren't wasting it. Just like I'm happy to donate money to a charity if I know the CEO isn't earning s
t loads more than me and swanning about in a brand new S Class.Otherwise it's a bit like lending money to that friend who seems to spend a lot of time hanging around William Hill.
I heard a snippet of Corbyn's speech to yesterday's protestors.
It didn't contain anything approaching a policy (heaven forbid from the Parliamentary opposition leader) but it was a good rabble rouser designed to reinforce people's sense of injustice.
His main thrust is that the money "is there" to spend, but the evil tories just choose not to.
He pointed at tax cuts for the wealthy / corporation tax avoidance to support his view that money "is there".
This is a political view of course, though Corbyn was around last time a labour govt. massively increased tax, and I'm surprised he's forgotten how well that went last time for UK plc.
Which is exactly the issue. High spend, high tax is good for you if you are needy and earn sod all, or a very small subset of intellectual socialists who are wealthy enough to be isolated from the impact of their principles. Because all the bad stuff is "their" problem (the govt, the elite, the rich, the capitalists, the banks, the tories, the corporations, the global system).
There's absolutely no acknowledgment of the symbiotic relationship in an economy to the well-being of the country as a whole, and the group above.
Inequality has risen by most measures, but that is as much I think due to sheer population growth at the "lower" end of the spectrum. And life quality is still better in absolute terms than it was in say 1917.
People's desire for public spending in my opinion tends to be inversely related to how much tax they contribute into the system.
Of course, a lot of the protester's fury was baseless. One guy said " if we do nothing, in 10 years there will be no A&E left".
Tosh. I remember these protests being trotted out 20 years ago.
Still, it gives them something to do.
It didn't contain anything approaching a policy (heaven forbid from the Parliamentary opposition leader) but it was a good rabble rouser designed to reinforce people's sense of injustice.
His main thrust is that the money "is there" to spend, but the evil tories just choose not to.
He pointed at tax cuts for the wealthy / corporation tax avoidance to support his view that money "is there".
This is a political view of course, though Corbyn was around last time a labour govt. massively increased tax, and I'm surprised he's forgotten how well that went last time for UK plc.
Which is exactly the issue. High spend, high tax is good for you if you are needy and earn sod all, or a very small subset of intellectual socialists who are wealthy enough to be isolated from the impact of their principles. Because all the bad stuff is "their" problem (the govt, the elite, the rich, the capitalists, the banks, the tories, the corporations, the global system).
There's absolutely no acknowledgment of the symbiotic relationship in an economy to the well-being of the country as a whole, and the group above.
Inequality has risen by most measures, but that is as much I think due to sheer population growth at the "lower" end of the spectrum. And life quality is still better in absolute terms than it was in say 1917.
People's desire for public spending in my opinion tends to be inversely related to how much tax they contribute into the system.
Of course, a lot of the protester's fury was baseless. One guy said " if we do nothing, in 10 years there will be no A&E left".
Tosh. I remember these protests being trotted out 20 years ago.
Still, it gives them something to do.
Moonhawk said:
Protest in London on Wednesday about the increase in state pension age for women.
Apparently 'equality' is only a good thing if you stand to benefit from it.
They are not protesting about the pension ages being made equal. It ways on their website:Apparently 'equality' is only a good thing if you stand to benefit from it.
"We do not ask for the pension age to revert back to age 60."
They are protesting about the effect the change will have on many women close to retirement. Many of those women simply didn't have the same opportunities as men to make pension provisions during their working lives.
Randy Winkman said:
They are not protesting about the pension ages being made equal. It ways on their website:
"We do not ask for the pension age to revert back to age 60?."
Whilst that is what they say - for the women involved - it is in essence what they are asking for."We do not ask for the pension age to revert back to age 60?."
'A bridging pension to pay them between 60 and the new state pension age' would for all intents and purposes, return their state pension age back to 60 would it not?
Randy Winkman said:
They are protesting about the effect the change will have on many women close to retirement. Many of those women simply didn't have the same opportunities as men to make pension provisions during their working lives.
Why did they have to. Compulsory retirement based on age is no longer a 'thing' having been abolished in 2011.There is no mandate for them to retire at 60 and nobody is going to force them out of employment at that age. They can simply continue in their current employment for a few more months/years until their state pension does kick in (if that is the only pension provision they have).
For those who are not in employment - presumably whatever benefits they are currently in receipt of will continue up to the new state pension age.
Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 6th March 08:20
Another day, another protest.
Brexit protest: thousands march in London to 'unite for Europe' - EU supporters take to capital’s streets to demonstrate against Britain’s departure from the union
Theresa May to be accused of 'dividing the country' at Brexit protest in London. Anti-Brexit politicians will urge Remain voters to 'keep fighting'
Brexit protest: thousands march in London to 'unite for Europe' - EU supporters take to capital’s streets to demonstrate against Britain’s departure from the union
Theresa May to be accused of 'dividing the country' at Brexit protest in London. Anti-Brexit politicians will urge Remain voters to 'keep fighting'
BlackLabel said:
Another day, another protest.
Brexit protest: thousands march in London to 'unite for Europe' - EU supporters take to capital’s streets to demonstrate against Britain’s departure from the union
Brexit protest: thousands march in London to 'unite for Europe' - EU supporters take to capital’s streets to demonstrate against Britain’s departure from the union
Well said
Looking around their site people (well, sore losers) are being urged to:
'March for EUROPE'.
Do they still not realise nor have the capacity to understand geography?
a) We are in Europe.
b) We always will be in Europe.
Don't they realise they are marching for something we can't leave?
Dopes, you are marching and supporting a 'project' a gravy train for them, the bureaucrats at its helm.
Brexiters are NOT against Europe nor Europeans, we love both, many inc me have much contact with both.
What we are against is the 'EU' the EUROPEAN UNION, Brussels and its self-serving bureaucracy.
Just watched Tusk and Juncker.
Sad individuals who always know best. For me its demise (that's the EU! not Europe, nor its people) can't come soon enough.
'March for EUROPE'.
Do they still not realise nor have the capacity to understand geography?
a) We are in Europe.
b) We always will be in Europe.
Don't they realise they are marching for something we can't leave?
Dopes, you are marching and supporting a 'project' a gravy train for them, the bureaucrats at its helm.
Brexiters are NOT against Europe nor Europeans, we love both, many inc me have much contact with both.
What we are against is the 'EU' the EUROPEAN UNION, Brussels and its self-serving bureaucracy.
Just watched Tusk and Juncker.
Sad individuals who always know best. For me its demise (that's the EU! not Europe, nor its people) can't come soon enough.
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