London is officially 'filthy'

[vonuber]

Mr GrimNasty said:

You might like to read 'Scare Pollution' by Steve Milloy, it's about the EPA (USA) but the fraudulent use of science to promote scares about PMs NOX etc. and impose a political agenda/control is common.

Steven J. Milloy is a lawyer, whose close financial and organizational ties to tobacco and oil companies have been the subject of criticism from a number of sources, as Milloy has consistently criticized the science linking secondhand smoke to health risks and human activity to global warming.[1][2] He was a commentator for Fox News and ran the Web site junkscience.com, which is dedicated to "debunking" what Milloy labels "faulty scientific data and analysis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy

[heebeegeetee]

If the air quality is so bad, how come the good people of Kensington and Chelsea live so long?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/29/li...

[vonuber]

heebeegeetee said:

If the air quality is so bad, how come the good people of Kensington and Chelsea live so long?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/29/li...

They don't live there, it's mostly vacant

[maxxy5]

Apparently the ultrafine particles emitted by diesel engines are so small that they go past the hairs in your nose and end up literally lodged in your brain. Where they might give you Alzheimers. Nice to know.

[heebeegeetee]

maxxy5 said:

Apparently the ultrafine particles emitted by diesel engines are so small that they go past the hairs in your nose and end up literally lodged in your brain. Where they might give you Alzheimers. Nice to know.

Are you sure about that? Petrol engines also emit particulates, said to be greater in number but of much lower weight. They are smaller and fine enough not to be seen, remain airborne longer and penetrate lungs more deeply. Not sure if they can go direct from nose to brain.

Both types of engine emit particulates but its the ones from petrol engines that are ultrafinest.

[Kermit power]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Fortunately Einstein had a brain and looked for the truth and didn't jump on political bandwagons.

The source air (continental pollution) is nearly always the root of the problem, topped up by stoves and Gas Central Heating Boilers.

http://www.thegwpf.com/green-energy-madness-peak-w...

You might like to read 'Scare Pollution' by Steve Milloy, it's about the EPA (USA) but the fraudulent use of science to promote scares about PMs NOX etc. and impose a political agenda/control is common.

I'm confused again. You're claiming continental pollution is nearly always the root of the problem, then you link to an article which again confirms that the lack of air movement is the biggest part of the problem?

[maxxy5]

heebeegeetee said:

Are you sure about that? Petrol engines also emit particulates, said to be greater in number but of much lower weight. They are smaller and fine enough not to be seen, remain airborne longer and penetrate lungs more deeply. Not sure if they can go direct from nose to brain.

Both types of engine emit particulates but its the ones from petrol engines that are ultrafinest.

No I'm not sure about petrol vs diesel, but the reason particles can get into the brain is because the olfactory nerve goes straight from the nose hairs to the brain, and the particles travel along that path somehow.

[FiF]

maxxy5 said:

heebeegeetee said:

Are you sure about that? Petrol engines also emit particulates, said to be greater in number but of much lower weight. They are smaller and fine enough not to be seen, remain airborne longer and penetrate lungs more deeply. Not sure if they can go direct from nose to brain.

Both types of engine emit particulates but its the ones from petrol engines that are ultrafinest.

No I'm not sure about petrol vs diesel, but the reason particles can get into the brain is because the olfactory nerve goes straight from the nose hairs to the brain, and the particles travel along that path somehow.

The study that's being quoted above as if it's gospel is a study by Lancaster university of 37 brains of people in UK and Mexico. They found plaques which may be caused by tiny magnetic particles. They listed a number of potential sources for such particles, internal combustion engines, not just diesel btw, brake pads on various forms of transport both road and rail, open fires, stoves, and even photo copiers. They don't know how they could get into the brain, essentially, but postulate a number of possibilities, one of which is the olfactory nerve.

Edited to add, particulates from internal combustion engines typically consist of highly agglomerated solid carbonaceous material, ash and volatile organic and sulphur compounds. So seeing as the particles suggested as being the problem are magnetite, basically iron oxide, struggling a little bit to see why people go, ah diesel engines, that's the guilty party.

AND typically folks lump all the blame on diesel cars, par for the course.

Edited by FiF on Tuesday 24th January 16:59

[King Herald]

numtumfutunch said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-387164...

Interesting and Im glad my current diesel motor is leased.
The end of the smoker is nigh - surely?

(If not the end of the private car itself in some cities with recent events in Paris etc)

Hmmm, road tax on my diseasel Mundeo is 30 notes a year. I assume that is for the low planet-destroying emissions it, er, emits. Am I missing something somewhere???

[battered]

heebeegeetee said:

If the air quality is so bad, how come the good people of Kensington and Chelsea live so long?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/29/li...

I'm only in town in the week darling, you don't think I'd stay there at the weekend do you? Why would I do that, when I can get a nice convenient flight to somewhere nice on the Friday?

[heebeegeetee]

battered said:

heebeegeetee said:

If the air quality is so bad, how come the good people of Kensington and Chelsea live so long?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/29/li...

I'm only in town in the week darling, you don't think I'd stay there at the weekend do you? Why would I do that, when I can get a nice convenient flight to somewhere nice on the Friday?

The Cotswolds? :-)

And of todays's 65 year olds, the healthiest live in Harrow and Caaaamden.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

[dazwalsh]

Another reason to live oop norf! Our water is nice and soft and our air is lovely and clean (ish)

[Kermit power]

boxxob said:

Kermit power said:

But bus lanes already are open to pedal and motorcycles?

Are they all - in Central/Greater London? Nationwide, there should be a change in the law so that only if a signed exception exists are the lanes not open to motorcycles. Bloody polluting, smelly-peasant haulage.

That's a fair question. I had assumed they were simply because they all are on my commute, but looking further into it, it seems they're allowed in most of TfL's bus lanes, but TfL only manage about 5% of the roads in London, and I've no idea what individual Boroughs do.

[Vaud]

dazwalsh said:

Another reason to live oop norf! Our water is nice and soft and our air is lovely and clean (ish)

As long as you avoid the city centres, agreed!

[BigLion]

London is a st hole to live in - but good for nights out.

[BigLion]

boxxob said:

BigLion said:

London is a st hole to live in - but good for nights out.

londoners say: it's a great place to live in but spoilt by all the idiots who arrive for a night out...

Unfortunately I was a Londoner for quite a while!

Career wise it's obviously a great place to be...

[mike74]

Living on the West coast (Anglesey) it's very noticeable when we get a thankfully very rare Easterly wind blowing... the smell of pollution, in particular diesel fumes from the big cities inland is overwhelming.

[BigLion]

boxxob said:

BigLion said:

Unfortunately I was a Londoner for quite a while!

then, what was wrong with it?

The overwhelmed infrastructure - roads, buses, tube etc.
The volume of people per sq meter
The commute via jubilee line to canary wharf - face in people's arm pits
The cost of everything
Lack of housing / garden
Lack of off road / on road parking
The general state of the roads where some very expensive houses resided
The strange folk
People drinking (used to at least) on the tube at 7am
The fact it was almost a Mecca for scammers
Etc.

The biggest thing was the tube - I absolutely detested that with a passion.

I could go on...

[Blib]

BigLion said:

boxxob said:

BigLion said:

Unfortunately I was a Londoner for quite a while!

then, what was wrong with it?

The overwhelmed infrastructure - roads, buses, tube etc.
The volume of people per sq meter
The commute via jubilee line to canary wharf - face in people's arm pits
The cost of everything
Lack of housing / garden
Lack of off road / on road parking
The general state of the roads where some very expensive houses resided
The strange folk
People drinking (used to at least) on the tube at 7am
The fact it was almost a Mecca for scammers
Etc.

The biggest thing was the tube - I absolutely detested that with a passion.

I could go on...

So, all the good things.

[vonuber]

Kermit power said:

That's a fair question. I had assumed they were simply because they all are on my commute, but looking further into it, it seems they're allowed in most of TfL's bus lanes, but TfL only manage about 5% of the roads in London, and I've no idea what individual Boroughs do.

Individual boroughs like to put up very well hidden and confusingly marked / timed signs so that when you are in a tfl bus lane, merrily bombing along smacking cyclists around the back of the head as they pull out without looking, it'll suddenly stop being a red route without warning and you'll end up with a nice big fine.

Some of them let you ride in them between the third Sunday of every month if the last Friday was a full moon and you have green socks on, but with other it's if the moon was only in a solar eclipse and it's March. Anything outside? Fine.

My favourite one is one which goes tfl- council - tfl over the space of about 100m. That's also good for a fine.

You can also get a fine pulling in to them to let an ambulance past.

Or a fine even riding down the white line trying to avoid getting squashed.

So basically just fines.