Article 50 ruling due now
Discussion
As previously mentioned: elections are snapshots and their implications are soon out of date, regardless of whatever relevance they may have.
Looking at opinion trends in EU countries provides additional information beyond snapshots.
This additional information won't be of any comfort to stoically pro-EU people.
Looking at opinion trends in EU countries provides additional information beyond snapshots.
This additional information won't be of any comfort to stoically pro-EU people.
Vantagemech said:
Yipper said:
Polls for show, votes for dough.
The reality is, the anti-EU parties are no longer winning. The pro-EU lobby is extremely powerful, very entrenched, and it is throwing every propaganda weapon at it to stop the uprising. The pro-EU camp was caught on the hop by Brexit, but it has since regrouped and fought back fast and strong.
Since Brexit, anti-EU parties have lost every major vote in 2016 and will almost certainly lose every major vote in 2017.
Surely this model only works while there is a large amount of support from the EU financially.The reality is, the anti-EU parties are no longer winning. The pro-EU lobby is extremely powerful, very entrenched, and it is throwing every propaganda weapon at it to stop the uprising. The pro-EU camp was caught on the hop by Brexit, but it has since regrouped and fought back fast and strong.
Since Brexit, anti-EU parties have lost every major vote in 2016 and will almost certainly lose every major vote in 2017.
Who is going to fill the hole from the UK? One of the biggest contributors leaves, Germany cant just say they will pay, then what?
PurpleAki said:
LasseV said:
One thing is what we haven't talked about is did Russia get involved to Brexit vote. I'm sure that they did.
I await your proof.
LasseV said:
I don't need to proof anything. Time will tell. The thing is, you need to be naive and little bit of idiot if you don't be aware of that they does influence peoples opinions around the world via internet/social media. Britain is not an exception.
Putting aside the difficulty of reading your reply due to the numerous errors...You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
LasseV said:
I don't need to proof anything. Time will tell. The thing is, you need to be naive and little bit of idiot if you don't be aware of that they does influence peoples opinions around the world via internet/social media. Britain is not an exception.
More influence than the government, the BBC and much of the media, the European Commission, the President of the United States, the CBI, all living former PMs, the Trade Unions and the universities who all campaigned more or less openly for Remain?IanH755 said:
Yipper said:
Since Brexit, anti-EU parties have lost every major vote in 2016 and will almost certainly lose every major vote in 2017.
The things is, while they have all "lost", their support and percentage of the vote is going up while the Pro-EU parties numbers are falling, so give it another 5-10 years and who knows where the Majority vote will be!No one else has had that choice, though proxy votes, such as the Netherland's vote recently on Ukraine and Italy's constitutional vote, went the other way. Not sure why those votes aren't on the list when the criteria is clearly wider than just general Elections? (see Austria)
The only reason that the situation is as it is is because the people aren't given the choice by referendum or the choice of a 'normal' Government and leaving the EU. All of the sensible electable options with any track record of government are pro-EU and in no mood to give the public a choice on EU membership, because they know what the public want......
PurpleAki said:
Putting aside the difficulty of reading your reply due to the numerous errors...
You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
I know how their system works because i have been studied this matter. However, i'm too lazy to teach some lazy ass dude in internet. Go to google and learn by yourself. After all, education is the best way to make your own opinions. You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
But you did know all this already.
LasseV said:
PurpleAki said:
Putting aside the difficulty of reading your reply due to the numerous errors...
You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
I know how their system works because i have been studied this matter. However, i'm too lazy to teach some lazy ass dude in internet. Go to google and learn by yourself. After all, education is the best way to make your own opinions. You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
But you did know all this already.
Words fail me.
PurpleAki said:
PurpleAki said:
LasseV said:
One thing is what we haven't talked about is did Russia get involved to Brexit vote. I'm sure that they did.
I await your proof.
LasseV said:
I don't need to proof anything. Time will tell. The thing is, you need to be naive and little bit of idiot if you don't be aware of that they does influence peoples opinions around the world via internet/social media. Britain is not an exception.
Putting aside the difficulty of reading your reply due to the numerous errors...You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
Yipper said:
Polls for show, votes for dough.
The reality is, the anti-EU parties are no longer winning. The pro-EU lobby is extremely powerful, very entrenched, and it is throwing every propaganda weapon at it to stop the uprising. The pro-EU camp was caught on the hop by Brexit, but it has since regrouped and fought back fast and strong.
Since Brexit, anti-EU parties have lost every major vote in 2016 and will almost certainly lose every major vote in 2017.
Anti-EU parties have never won. But that's not the point. The reality is, the anti-EU parties are no longer winning. The pro-EU lobby is extremely powerful, very entrenched, and it is throwing every propaganda weapon at it to stop the uprising. The pro-EU camp was caught on the hop by Brexit, but it has since regrouped and fought back fast and strong.
Since Brexit, anti-EU parties have lost every major vote in 2016 and will almost certainly lose every major vote in 2017.
All they need to do is be seen to have enough support for the major parties to rethink. Exactly as happened here.
Brexit is a wake up call for pro-EU parties, but unless the EU fundamentally changes they are in for a rough ride.
Anti-EU parties may not yet have won control of a government, but to think their support is waning is daft. The stats do not demonstrate this - not polls. Outcomes. Crikey, just look here. UKIP don't have a single seat any more, but they got what they existed for. That is not accidental. And look at Wilders. He "lost"... But did he? He didn't gain control of the Dutch government, but that was never realistically going to happen. However what did happen was that he increased his vote take. People are moving that way. They want change.
The response from the other Dutch parties was to actively isolate him. That's fine for now. But if they aren't careful and things don't go well for the current government or, God forbid, the Dutch are increasingly subject to the downsides of EU policies, watch that change. And change quite rapidly.
Being dismissive of "difficult" views is not the way to tackle them, and yet it is still the only approach the pro-EU politicos have - "you're being stupid. The obvious answer is more EU".
These parties will be responsible for their own downfall if they persist with this. Remain in the UK was the first real taster, but it was building for decades before it actually happened.
I'm seriously doubtful another equally large move will happen before we leave. It could, but I doubt it. However, the next round of European state elections will be a couple of years after we've actually left. If we make even half a fist of it, and there's even the remotest repeat of some of the more shaky events we've increasingly had (Greece bankruptcy debate;youth unemployment;immigration issues;terrorist attacks; heavier posturing from Russia; etc) and if the EU does not listen and act, I think the chances of other countries leaving in the next 4-10yrs will significantly increase.
LasseV said:
PurpleAki said:
Putting aside the difficulty of reading your reply due to the numerous errors...
You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
I know how their system works because i have been studied this matter. However, i'm too lazy to teach some lazy ass dude in internet. Go to google and learn by yourself. After all, education is the best way to make your own opinions. You said you are SURE Russia was involved in the Brexit decision.
You'd have to be naive and a bit of an idiot to be SURE of something with no proof whatsoever...
But you did know all this already.
Of course we can all learn a lot from the internet.
We also learnt to ignore a lot of it because a lot of it's simply b
ks or pure propaganda.It's the nature of the beast.
Most can see that.
LasseV said:
I know how their system works because i have been studied this matter. However, i'm too lazy to teach some lazy ass dude in internet. Go to google and learn by yourself. After all, education is the best way to make your own opinions.
But you did know all this already.
Again, is this system more powerful than the various prominent people and organisations who backed Remain?But you did know all this already.
LasseV said:
I know how their system works because i have been studied this matter. However, i'm too lazy to teach some lazy ass dude in internet. Go to google and learn by yourself. After all, education is the best way to make your own opinions.
But you did know all this already.
Education would also be a way of preventing posting illiterate rubbish. You should try it sometime.But you did know all this already.
...goldI'm not sure which of the many topics is right for this question-but what oversight is present on the repeal bill?
There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
cookie118 said:
I'm not sure which of the many topics is right for this question-but what oversight is present on the repeal bill?
There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
The 'lot of people' you refer to are those who see yet another opportunity to frustrate the UK leaving the EU.There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
I'm sure once this latest attempt has been thwarted more opportunities will crop up and this process will continue for the next two years.
cookie118 said:
I'm not sure which of the many topics is right for this question-but what oversight is present on the repeal bill?
There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
the uk ballot box will be the oversight,and if they take the piss too much then they get the big stick in the form of things like the poll tax riots .There are a lot of people who are concerned about the fact that it seems to give the government a large amount of power and little oversight of that power.
There's also the question of how far will the government stretch the definition of "technicalities" when making changes to legislation.
Overall the bill seems to have created more questions than answers at the moment.
LasseV said:
One thing is what we haven't talked about is did Russia get involved to Brexit vote.
GTFO! Honestly. Anyone blaming Russia for anything that's happening is short of brain!
in other news
These Remainers are so much more clever than us fick Exiters innit
Yipper said:
Yes, Brits are the only EU nation not to have been seriously invaded for the past ~900 years. And the UK has pretty much beaten every EU nation it has warred against in the past ~700 years. Britain today still owns bits of Ireland, bits of France, bits of Spain, bits of Greece, and bits of Turkey. That all gives Britain a unique culture, where it is simply not used to being ruled from afar. In living memory, for example, France has been ruled by Germany, while Germany has been ruled by Russia and America. When Britons see the creeping EU tentacles, which have gone way beyond the original economic remit, they see (rightly or wrongly) a European invasion by proxy. That concerns many (and understandably so).
I agreed with all that.They were explaining this on the radio earlier. We see Eu as a "trade" agreement. Many people in the EU view it as "belonging to a club"
We need to try and understand that (and I suspect our negotiators have got that faster than the BBC) and work with that, not try and force our way on them.
But then
Yipper said:
The question is "what happens next". The UK's biggest problem is that her economy is a disaster (before the EU, during the EU, and today after the EU). London is rich, but the remainder ~80% of the country is very poor (by Western standards). Places like Glasgow, West Wales, and Cornwall are bordering on third-world. The UK will only be influential in the world of the future if her economy is powerful and strong. With only around 1 in 5 "cylinders" firing for the UK economy, her economic decline may be too far gone to save her, whether in or out of the EU.
You over egg it old boy. "Third world?" "economic decline"Not even close! Not saying its perfect but we currenty have LESS than 5% unemployment and that's with 3million EU migrants here!
Laurel Green said:
garyhun said:
Northern Munkee said:
James Obrien is currently melting down on lbc
Isn't he just 
denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance
So at the Anger stage. And with some of the no doubt idiots calling him I don't blame him since they don't represent me either. (selectively chosen of course)
TBH I would LOVE for him to do a "Reamainer only. Pro Brexit" phone in. Its important to listen to opposing views. Not just shout them down. I find as a rule it's the Leave camp who want to smooth things over, whilst the REmoaners want to keep it murky.
Saying that Maajid Nawaz wrote an excellent piece in the last couple days.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/29/y...
I genuinely, dearly, want Remainers to get on board with this and help make it work.
Not just carry on with the "its the end of the world and we're all dead and how could be dare to threaten the EU , when all they've done since the vote is passive aggressively threaten us...
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