Article 50 ruling due now
Discussion
Rich_W said:
...
Not just carry on with the "its the end of the world and we're all dead and how could be dare to threaten the EU , when all they've done since the vote is passive aggressively threaten us...
You are like a walking billboard. I'd imagine that even Melania is brighter than you. Not just carry on with the "its the end of the world and we're all dead and how could be dare to threaten the EU , when all they've done since the vote is passive aggressively threaten us...
Zod said:
KrissKross said:
Zod said:
I've spent the day in Brussels in the Commission at a workshop on the forthcoming prospectus regulation (exciting, eh? It is important to me).
Ah so you are paid in some way to be part of the club, no wonder you are so pro EU. Getting this stuff right is good for the City, so good for my business, so improves my prospects of earning money from doing deals.
don'tbesilly said:
The 'lot of people' you refer to are those who see yet another opportunity to frustrate the UK leaving the EU.
I'm sure once this latest attempt has been thwarted more opportunities will crop up and this process will continue for the next two years.
Hmm-sometimes it's hard to draw the line between frustrating and oversight-to flip the question are you ok with the government having no questions asked of it for the next two years and then we just have to work with the final outcome?I'm sure once this latest attempt has been thwarted more opportunities will crop up and this process will continue for the next two years.
How about if when they are 'onboarding' the EU regulations they begin tweaking the ones that suit them with no parliamentary scrutiny?
Rich_W said:
I genuinely, dearly, want Remainers to get on board with this and help make it work.
Go on-what should I do to make it work? As in personally?jjlynn27 said:
cookie118 said:
Go on-what should I do to make it work? As in personally?
Produce more tractors or excavate more coal. It's just another idiotic, meaningless soundbites.
With all the extra money the NHS are going to get, this procedure should be made free for all remainers.
Let's make Britain great again.
bmw535i said:
jjlynn27 said:
cookie118 said:
Go on-what should I do to make it work? As in personally?
Produce more tractors or excavate more coal. It's just another idiotic, meaningless soundbites.
With all the extra money the NHS are going to get, this procedure should be made free for all remainers.
Let's make Britain great again.
It's lobotomy, but the way - excision of the frontal lobe.
cookie118 said:
Rich_W said:
I genuinely, dearly, want Remainers to get on board with this and help make it work.
Go on-what should I do to make it work? As in personally?1) Read Maajids piece in the link above. He's a Remainer, but I think he makes some good points.
Essentially decide what you guys want post Brexit, because like it or not, it's going to happen. What do you want the UK to have, and conversely not have. I doubt that you believe everything from the EU was great. Maybe you liked the trade deals but didn't like this push for an "EU Army" (I actually thought that was scaremongering and they wouldn't ever try to do that, seems I was wrong. They even want this army to have nuclear!
Once you've nailed down what you want, you need to find MPs who will make the case for it and badger them. This isn't about hard or Soft exit. It's about knowing that there will be compromise on both sides. (Like Switzerland) Corbyn threatening to hold the Government to account is a soundbite by an individual that cant even hold his party to account. Clegg and the Lib Dems are in full catastrophe mode. That isn't helpful as they get ignored because the points they are/will be making are from a position of "brexit is a disaster and will never work" The UK is not full of idiots. We can make it on our own, but it requires a shift in thinking.
I'll just quote one bit
Maajid said:
A liberal post-Brexit Britain should be an open, outward looking, global facing, immigrant and investment friendly country.
Globally, a vision for a British future outside of the European Union could begin by forging exclusive relationships with the English speaking countries of the world. The U.K. already has unparalleled security and counter-terrorism cooperation with what are known as the "Five eyes nations": the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Add the Republic of Ireland to this list and the beginnings of a new liberal trade and relaxed free-movement bloc become apparent.
Such a vision would allay the immigration fears of Brexiteers–because the languages and cultures of these countries are close enough—while also placating Remainers, who are keen not to see "fortress Britain," or "little England" emerge after Brexit.
The success of this new bloc could learn from all the mistakes of Europe gone by: keep bureaucracy at bay, do not set overly ambitions goals, do not expand too fast, keep the rules to a minimum, and keep the people on side. Of course, both sides may feel disappointed by some elements of this compact, but then compromise is called an art for good reason.
2) Potentially, and this is a tougher one. Read between the lines. See an opportunity thrown up by Brexit. Whether that's services or goods related to the EU. Whatever it is, go out there and make it a business and make it successful. Be one of the winners from Brexit. A Leader not a followerGlobally, a vision for a British future outside of the European Union could begin by forging exclusive relationships with the English speaking countries of the world. The U.K. already has unparalleled security and counter-terrorism cooperation with what are known as the "Five eyes nations": the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Add the Republic of Ireland to this list and the beginnings of a new liberal trade and relaxed free-movement bloc become apparent.
Such a vision would allay the immigration fears of Brexiteers–because the languages and cultures of these countries are close enough—while also placating Remainers, who are keen not to see "fortress Britain," or "little England" emerge after Brexit.
The success of this new bloc could learn from all the mistakes of Europe gone by: keep bureaucracy at bay, do not set overly ambitions goals, do not expand too fast, keep the rules to a minimum, and keep the people on side. Of course, both sides may feel disappointed by some elements of this compact, but then compromise is called an art for good reason.
At the risk of being flippant.
When it comes to Brexit, you can either fight it as hard, keep belittling Leavers as thick or racist or "easily duped" And expend a lot of effort and time for no real benefit as its happening anyway. the EU, You, me, wea ll know this. (Gina Miller is probably near suicidal) Or you can see it as shuffling the pack and there will be positives and focus on some of those for a while. I know it was sound bite when May said "unite" And you'll never unite everyone. But try for a couple of days to find reasons to support Brexit (even though you didn't vote for it) Glass half full and all that
Alternatively, utilise the option to go and live in another country for the rest of your life. Personally I don't think that's a good option, Id rather you stayed and helped make the country as profitable as possible. But it the 48% all left for Germany it would be quite a thing.
Zod said:
bmw535i said:
Zod said:
hat money? This is a genuine question.
It's lobotomy, but the way - excision of the frontal lobe.
It's by the way, by the way.It's lobotomy, but the way - excision of the frontal lobe.
What money!!!!! Er haven't you seen the big red bus?
No Leave voter that I met made that decision on a bus that said "lets" not "we will" and I haven't heard any leave voters question where the money has disappeared to. In the same way, no one I knew voted leave to "get the muslims out" which was equally stupid
The only people that bang on about it are Remainers. But we not allowed to point out that the Remain camp said we can expect financial Armageddon days after the vote, an emergency budget, mass deportations, and who knows what other s
te I didn't believe either.Though of course there is the genuine question of where £XBn a year we sent to the EU per annum will be redistributed post 2019. Lets assume they wont put it to the deficit. MPs Salaries perhaps?
Edited by Rich_W on Thursday 30th March 22:32
She's back.
bloomberg said:
Gina Miller May Consider New Lawsuit Over Great Repeal Bill
Gina Miller, who brought the lawsuit that forced U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May to get parliamentary approval for her Brexit plans, may file another legal challenge -- this time over May’s bid to take control over thousands of European Union laws.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-03-30/gina-miller-may-consider-new-lawsuit-over-great-repeal-billGina Miller, who brought the lawsuit that forced U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May to get parliamentary approval for her Brexit plans, may file another legal challenge -- this time over May’s bid to take control over thousands of European Union laws.
You always knew she would be.
I get that we don't want a Government to do anything illegal. But at the same time, why does Miller feel it's her duty to try as hard as she can to derail the process? If she feels its a disaster she has the financial clout to move anywhere in the world (thanks to her divorce settlement) Lots of places have better weather and culture than the UK.
Though it ignores the fact that despite what Liberty is saying. We exceed the EU in terms of holiday pay and sick pay. And so far as I can see. All the EU laws will be the same just on a different bit of headed notepaper. We need to carry on building cars to EU standards since we want to sell them to the EU. Some bang on about the banana thing, but it's not going to be changed since there simply isn't time to rewrite thousands of the rules and legislation.
Common sense will prevail
I get that we don't want a Government to do anything illegal. But at the same time, why does Miller feel it's her duty to try as hard as she can to derail the process? If she feels its a disaster she has the financial clout to move anywhere in the world (thanks to her divorce settlement) Lots of places have better weather and culture than the UK.
Though it ignores the fact that despite what Liberty is saying. We exceed the EU in terms of holiday pay and sick pay. And so far as I can see. All the EU laws will be the same just on a different bit of headed notepaper. We need to carry on building cars to EU standards since we want to sell them to the EU. Some bang on about the banana thing, but it's not going to be changed since there simply isn't time to rewrite thousands of the rules and legislation.
Common sense will prevail
Rich_W said:
cookie118 said:
Rich_W said:
I genuinely, dearly, want Remainers to get on board with this and help make it work.
Go on-what should I do to make it work? As in personally?1) Read Maajids piece in the link above. He's a Remainer, but I think he makes some good points.
Essentially decide what you guys want post Brexit, because like it or not, it's going to happen. What do you want the UK to have, and conversely not have. I doubt that you believe everything from the EU was great. Maybe you liked the trade deals but didn't like this push for an "EU Army" (I actually thought that was scaremongering and they wouldn't ever try to do that, seems I was wrong. They even want this army to have nuclear!
Once you've nailed down what you want, you need to find MPs who will make the case for it and badger them. This isn't about hard or Soft exit. It's about knowing that there will be compromise on both sides. (Like Switzerland) Corbyn threatening to hold the Government to account is a soundbite by an individual that cant even hold his party to account. Clegg and the Lib Dems are in full catastrophe mode. That isn't helpful as they get ignored because the points they are/will be making are from a position of "brexit is a disaster and will never work" The UK is not full of idiots. We can make it on our own, but it requires a shift in thinking.
There is also the fact that the negotiating position is being set by the Tory government with little to no recourse to parliament. For example I would prefer the government to prioritise tarriff-free single market access over immigration controls-however this is not the government's position, and there is no parliamentary oversight of the negotiating position which means that applying pressure through MP's etc is ineffective in trying to achieve this.
There are often quotes about the next election and being able to kick the government out if the mess it up. However we only get one shot at the Brexit negotiation. It isn't like a budget where taxes or cuts can be reversed or continued-this is a one off and the government seems to have free reign.
Rich_W said:
I'll just quote one bit
.....snipped....
But try for a couple of days to find reasons to support Brexit (even though you didn't vote for it) Glass half full and all that
Alternatively, utilise the option to go and live in another country for the rest of your life. Personally I don't think that's a good option, Id rather you stayed and helped make the country as profitable as possible. But it the 48% all left for Germany it would be quite a thing.
Again though-when you say an opportunity thrown up by Brexit-what opportunities will there be? We don't know whether we will have tarriff free access to the single market-in or out of the customs union or if we're going to do a hokie-cokie and go out initially then back in if we can't negotiate trade during Art50 negotiations. This uncertainty is probably good for those who have the resources to take a risk (or who are involved in industries that will be directly involved in the Brexit process), but I'd imagine for most it is a bad thing.Maajid said:
Snipped
2) Potentially, and this is a tougher one. Read between the lines. See an opportunity thrown up by Brexit. Whether that's services or goods related to the EU. Whatever it is, go out there and make it a business and make it successful. Be one of the winners from Brexit. A Leader not a follower.....snipped....
But try for a couple of days to find reasons to support Brexit (even though you didn't vote for it) Glass half full and all that
Alternatively, utilise the option to go and live in another country for the rest of your life. Personally I don't think that's a good option, Id rather you stayed and helped make the country as profitable as possible. But it the 48% all left for Germany it would be quite a thing.
From my personal perspective-I have been keeping my head down, and looking for opportunities but it's nothing that I wouldn't be doing without Brexit. Does that mean I'm not 'uniting' behind Brexit? And also it often seems that not 'uniting' behind Brexit is used as a criticism of a person raising queries about how Brexit is being handled-when in reality what more can they do besides getting on with their job in hand?
Yours was an interesting post-but I don't particularly agree with it.
They had EU vice -President Ioan Mircea Pașcu on BBC News last night and an interesting point was (quite robustly) put to him by the presenter; that to the letter of Article 50, future trade deals should be negotiated in parallel - i.e. at the same time - as the exit deal.
The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
Digga said:
They had EU vice -President Ioan Mircea Pa?cu on BBC News last night and an interesting point was (quite robustly) put to him by the presenter; that to the letter of Article 50, future trade deals should be negotiated in parallel - i.e. at the same time - as the exit deal.
The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
Interesting to read that.The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
Article 50 which refers to Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union regarding conduct of negotiations:
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty...
Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty...
turbobloke said:
Digga said:
They had EU vice -President Ioan Mircea Pa?cu on BBC News last night and an interesting point was (quite robustly) put to him by the presenter; that to the letter of Article 50, future trade deals should be negotiated in parallel - i.e. at the same time - as the exit deal.
The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
Interesting to read that.The EU leaders say the UK must first agree its exit terms before talks can move on to future ties, but this seems contrary to the fairly plainly stated intent of Article 50.
Article 50 which refers to Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union regarding conduct of negotiations:
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty...
Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty...
Lisbon treaty said:
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
Of course someone will be along soon to point out that "future relationship" just means "not paying us any money".bmw535i said:
Education would also be a way of preventing posting illiterate rubbish. You should try it sometime.
Ok.What is Russian troll factory:
http://www.theweek.co.uk/64829/russias-troll-army-...
- Lot's of resources
How it works:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/russia-troll-far...
-Through social media: twitter, FB, NyTimes, Guardian, PH....
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3186639/security/se...
- Heavy influence in US president election
- The groups spreading disinformation appeared to target specific swing states in the weeks leading up to the U.S. election
- Clinton and Rubio was targets
http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-russia-presidential...
-More information about Brexit vote
What is their aim?
http://www.smh.com.au/world/finnish-journalists-je...
- The aim is to make you disbelieve anything. A disbelieving, fragile, unconscious audience is much easier to manipulate.
I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
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