Article 50 ruling due now
Discussion
Perfect gift for Christmas.LasseV said:
(snipped)
I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
Ok, I get your point and perhaps surprisingly, I agree with the principle. I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
But.... if this process is so well known, would you not expect the same organisations/whatever to be operating in the interests of, say China, USA, India, etc ? Was the Remain campaign bolstered by trolls from Germany and Brussels ? Was David Cameron swamping social media from a back room in Downing St, Richard Branson doing the same from his island home ?
You're 100% right that we should take online polls, social media, etc with a pinch of salt. But the argument applies both ways, Russia could have influenced the debate but equally so could our own government. And I bet the UK & USA would be better at it.
LasseV said:
bmw535i said:
Education would also be a way of preventing posting illiterate rubbish. You should try it sometime.
Ok.What is Russian troll factory:
http://www.theweek.co.uk/64829/russias-troll-army-...
- Lot's of resources
How it works:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/russia-troll-far...
-Through social media: twitter, FB, NyTimes, Guardian, PH....
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3186639/security/se...
- Heavy influence in US president election
- The groups spreading disinformation appeared to target specific swing states in the weeks leading up to the U.S. election
- Clinton and Rubio was targets
http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-russia-presidential...
-More information about Brexit vote
What is their aim?
http://www.smh.com.au/world/finnish-journalists-je...
- The aim is to make you disbelieve anything. A disbelieving, fragile, unconscious audience is much easier to manipulate.
I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
Do you work for the EU ?
Zod said:
KrissKross said:
What stuff, genuinely interested to know?
EU financial services regulation that will continue to apply to us after we leave the EU. Have you heard of the Great Repeal Bill that will transpose all EU legislation into English law?
One very minor example was the banning of using imperial weight units during selling, an EU law which only effected our country, which could be repealed allowing Fruit/Veg sellers to show both metric & imperial weights again. The impact of a repeal would be very minimal but, as a country which still uses both units of measure in everyday situations, it would be an easy win to show how we're removing "silly" EU rules which bring no benefit to the UK.
b2hbm said:
Of course someone will be along soon to point out that "future relationship" just means "not paying us any money".
It could mean anything you want it to mean I guess, so it's difficult to argue against either the UK or EU's stance.You can also argue that if a member state cannot negotiate any trade deals in it's own right whilst a member, then the UK cannot by definition negotiate a trade deal with the EU until it has left the EU.
PurpleMoonlight said:
b2hbm said:
Of course someone will be along soon to point out that "future relationship" just means "not paying us any money".
It could mean anything you want it to mean I guess, so it's difficult to argue against either the UK or EU's stance.You can also argue that if a member state cannot negotiate any trade deals in it's own right whilst a member, then the UK cannot by definition negotiate a trade deal with the EU until it has left the EU.
Lisbon Treaty said:
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
It is there, in black and white, that the way we are currently being told the process is to be conducted is wrong.IanH755 said:
Zod said:
KrissKross said:
What stuff, genuinely interested to know?
EU financial services regulation that will continue to apply to us after we leave the EU. Have you heard of the Great Repeal Bill that will transpose all EU legislation into English law?
One very minor example was the banning of using imperial weight units during selling, an EU law which only effected our country, which could be repealed allowing Fruit/Veg sellers to show both metric & imperial weights again. The impact of a repeal would be very minimal but, as a country which still uses both units of measure in everyday situations, it would be an easy win to show how we're removing "silly" EU rules which bring no benefit to the UK.
b2hbm said:
LasseV said:
(snipped)
I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
Ok, I get your point and perhaps surprisingly, I agree with the principle. I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
But.... if this process is so well known, would you not expect the same organisations/whatever to be operating in the interests of, say China, USA, India, etc ? Was the Remain campaign bolstered by trolls from Germany and Brussels ? Was David Cameron swamping social media from a back room in Downing St, Richard Branson doing the same from his island home ?
You're 100% right that we should take online polls, social media, etc with a pinch of salt. But the argument applies both ways, Russia could have influenced the debate but equally so could our own government. And I bet the UK & USA would be better at it.
PRTVR said:
But doesn't the EU do the same thing ? I am sure I read that they employ large numbers of social media people, why should it be ok for one to do it but not the other.
Do you work for the EU ?
No, western countries doesn't do the same thing. They does give us information but they will use their own official accounts and real people for that.Do you work for the EU ?
Troll factory does things differently, they use faux identities, accounts etc. And they usually gives you false information. There is approx. 400 workers, 12h shifts and about 135 posts/tweets in a one shift. That's a lot of information.
No, i don't work for EU. I'm just a EU citizen who thinks that everyone should know basic things.
Digga said:
It is there, in black and white, that the way we are currently being told the process is to be conducted is wrong.
The point made is that 'future relationship' is not defined so could mean anything. It could for example mean the EU and UK will trade upon terms to be decided.PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
It is there, in black and white, that the way we are currently being told the process is to be conducted is wrong.
The point made is that 'future relationship' is not defined so could mean anything. It could for example mean the EU and UK will trade upon terms to be decided.LasseV said:
b2hbm said:
LasseV said:
(snipped)
I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
Ok, I get your point and perhaps surprisingly, I agree with the principle. I know that there is a big support for Brexit in the UK but there is a big possibility that "trolls" did have their own influence to outcome of the vote. This is not a tin foil hat theory, this is the world where we are living. Get used to it.
I don't hate russians.
But.... if this process is so well known, would you not expect the same organisations/whatever to be operating in the interests of, say China, USA, India, etc ? Was the Remain campaign bolstered by trolls from Germany and Brussels ? Was David Cameron swamping social media from a back room in Downing St, Richard Branson doing the same from his island home ?
You're 100% right that we should take online polls, social media, etc with a pinch of salt. But the argument applies both ways, Russia could have influenced the debate but equally so could our own government. And I bet the UK & USA would be better at it.
PRTVR said:
But doesn't the EU do the same thing ? I am sure I read that they employ large numbers of social media people, why should it be ok for one to do it but not the other.
Do you work for the EU ?
No, western countries doesn't do the same thing. They does give us information but they will use their own official accounts and real people for that.Do you work for the EU ?
Troll factory does things differently, they use faux identities, accounts etc. And they usually gives you false information. There is approx. 400 workers, 12h shifts and about 135 posts/tweets in a one shift. That's a lot of information.
No, i don't work for EU. I'm just a EU citizen who thinks that everyone should know basic things.
Digga said:
Poorly drafted perhaps, but it does smack of the EU making up their own interpretation of the rules. It is in and of itself, a very prescient reminder of why we need out from this shambolic faux bureaucracy.
Not really. It's the first time the process has been utilised.Let's not forget the UK Government had to be taken to court to ensure invoking A50 was lawfully effected.
LasseV said:
No, i don't work for EU. I'm just a EU citizen who thinks that everyone should know basic things.
I thought you were leaving???LasseV's flounce
LasseV said:
B'stard Child said:
And??I thought you asked for your account to be deleted?
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