Article 50 ruling due now

[turbobloke]

Norfolkit said:

loose cannon said:

The owner of this site now piping up calling for a revolt in the lords
Bless him bet the farthinghoe massive of 12 villagers will all be supporting him

He should be charged with bringing dinosaurs into disrepute.

[loose cannon]

[turbobloke]

loose cannon said:

Looks like a taser 'after' photo.

No, hang on, a taser 'before' photo.

[BlackLabel]

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

[turbobloke]

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

[jonnyb]

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

[danllama]

I thought it wasn't in our power to guarantee that? Due to the EU refusing to discuss pre-A50.

[p1stonhead]

jonnyb said:

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

No one can guarantee anything to anyone.

[don'tbesilly]

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

[p1stonhead]

don'tbesilly said:

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

If say nothing gets agreed on EU / UK nationals abroad by the end of the process what would it default to do you know? I can't imagine it's in anyone's interest to do anything other than leave it as it is?

But if it got ugly, surely everyone wouldn't have to return home? I have no idea how it would end up if people start getting petty about it.

[jonnyb]

p1stonhead said:

jonnyb said:

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

No one can guarantee anything to anyone.

We can guarantee it to them, so why don't we? Then were not using human beings as pawns in our little game.

[Sylvaforever]

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

You see, the thing is, not one of the leave groups actually said they wanted this, in fact they ALL said that it was IMMORAL to even contemplate applying any legeslation retrospectively, not one.

It's all vitrue signalling along with efforts to ensure the country is punished for the leave vote.

[hyphen]

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

Will be instersting to see if the 'replace Lords for elected' petition will go over 100k
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170686

[FiF]

don'tbesilly said:

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

Lord Tebbit summed it up just like that, more concerned about EU nationals than UK citizens it appears.

[don'tbesilly]

p1stonhead said:

don'tbesilly said:

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

If say nothing gets agreed on EU / UK nationals abroad by the end of the process what would it default to do you know? I can't imagine it's in anyone's interest to do anything other than leave it as it is?

But if it got ugly, surely everyone wouldn't have to return home? I have no idea how it would end up if people start getting petty about it.

If the amendment gets past the HoC EU nationals already here will get the right to remain from June 2017.

I don't have a problem with that at all, however a UK national currently residing in the EU will not necessarily know what their status is until the UK reaches an agreement with the EU by April 2019 when the EU might agree a reciprocal agreement.
If no agreement with the EU is made by that date and the UK leaves regardless, the status of UK nationals will be unknown.

Of course the EU might agree a reciprocal agreement very early on in the negotiations,however there is no guarantee this will happen, as if the amendment goes through, all bets are off.

The UK's govt stance before the debate this afternoon was that EU nationals currently in the UK WILL be able to stay after the UK leaves the EU, this has been the case since the referendum

[turbobloke]

jonnyb said:

p1stonhead said:

jonnyb said:

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

No one can guarantee anything to anyone.

We can guarantee it to them, so why don't we? Then were not using human beings as pawns in our little game.

Is the EU guaranteeing anything at this stage?

Surely negotiation between two parties involves negotiation, not pre-emptive guarantees regardless of anything else.

[grumbledoak]

hyphen said:

Will be instersting to see if the 'replace Lords for elected' petition will go over 100k
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170686

Signed.

[p1stonhead]

jonnyb said:

p1stonhead said:

jonnyb said:

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

No one can guarantee anything to anyone.

We can guarantee it to them, so why don't we? Then were not using human beings as pawns in our little game.

You don't give something away in a negotiation without getting something in return.

[FiF]

p1stonhead said:

jonnyb said:

p1stonhead said:

jonnyb said:

turbobloke said:

As expected the HoL was uppity and has delayed progress of the Bill but has not stopped A50. HoC will remove their uppitiness.

I don't understand why its uppity? Why don't the Hoc just agree to the amendments and get on with it?

No one can guarantee anything to anyone.

We can guarantee it to them, so why don't we? Then were not using human beings as pawns in our little game.

You don't give something away in a negotiation without getting something in return.

Frankly is it any wonder that we, this country, are generally in a pickle. These people, supposedly the leaders, are just a set of flaming naive amateurs. Unbelievable at times.

[dandarez]

FiF said:

don'tbesilly said:

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

Lord Tebbit summed it up just like that, more concerned about EU nationals than UK citizens it appears.

I just heard someone say this: Germany and France will now be pissing themselves. Do lefty Labour and LibDUMB Lords seriously believe that the EU will play fair - how naive they are? Or are they just playing party politics with the democratic will of the people?

Time we were now rid of most of this chamber.
Thought this for some time. I signed the last petition, it got only 306 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/35297056...
Signed!
A tad higher than the last time. I wonder why?

Mine has just made it 36,206 signatures.