Article 50 ruling due now

[FiF]

dandarez said:

FiF said:

don'tbesilly said:

BlackLabel said:

"Breaking News image
The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.
However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.
Ministers say the issue is a priority but must be part of a deal protecting UK expats overseas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

After watching the debate this afternoon, it became quite clear that there really was no need for such an amendment at all, after hearing countless times that May has promised EU nationals what the amendment calls for, and that the only thing that's stopped such a deal already being agreed upon is the EU.

The amendment wants the rights of EU nationals to be guaranteed and agreed by the end of June 2017, with no agreement of the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries the same guarantee.

The Lords amendment is consigning 900,000 odd UK nationals to possibly 2 years of uncertainty and doubt about their status in EU countries, with a real possibility of the EU not agreeing a reciprocal agreement.

It's clear where the Lords priorities lay!

Lord Tebbit summed it up just like that, more concerned about EU nationals than UK citizens it appears.

I just heard someone say this: Germany and France will now be pissing themselves. Do lefty Labour and LibDUMB Lords seriously believe that the EU will play fair - how naive they are? Or are they just playing party politics with the democratic will of the people?

Time we were now rid of most of this chamber.
Thought this for some time. I signed the last petition, it got only 306 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/35297056...
Signed!
A tad higher than the last time. I wonder why?

Mine has just made it 36,206 signatures.

Cronyism in honours makes a mockery of the claim that people are selected from various backgrounds in order to make use of their expertise. Time there was a bomb under the place, figuratively speaking.

[Deptford Draylons]

Its a virtue signaling waste of time. It won't change anything.

[anonymous-user]

Perhaps some goodwill on our behalf will be reciprocated.
We should set the moral high ground, rather than threats.
Can always change our minds if it doesn't go to plan..

[B'stard Child]

Jimboka said:

Perhaps some goodwill on our behalf will be reciprocated.
We should set the moral high ground, rather than threats.
Can always change our minds if it doesn't go to plan..

ooops - sorry fella reacted before I read it because your posts are always so stereotypical

[don'tbesilly]

Jimboka said:

Perhaps some goodwill on our behalf will be reciprocated.
We should set the moral high ground, rather than threats.
Can always change our minds if it doesn't go to plan..

If the amendment goes through,and the EU don't agree a reciprocal agreement, can you give us an outline of just how the UK can change their minds and the statute?

[Jockman]

Jimboka said:

Perhaps some goodwill on our behalf will be reciprocated.
We should set the moral high ground, rather than threats.
Can always change our minds if it doesn't go to plan..

It won't be reciprocated. As pointed out on BBC News this morning, several EU states prioritise money over people ie they are more concerned with the financial package being offered by the UK than any issues of citizenship.

The mistake many people are making is that there is a homogeneous unit to be negotiated with. There isn't.

I applaud the humanity and sincerity of the HOL and its Members but I do have qualms about their view of the real world post brexit.

[dandarez]

What did I say? Last petition got just over 300 signatures.

This Petition could make the main morning news (instead of the defeat) the way the numbers signing it are going!

100,000 needed by 2nd May.

Could have 100,000 tonight at this rate!
Don't ps off the people. They will bite back.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170686

[don'tbesilly]

Jockman said:

Jimboka said:

Perhaps some goodwill on our behalf will be reciprocated.
We should set the moral high ground, rather than threats.
Can always change our minds if it doesn't go to plan..

.

I applaud the humanity and sincerity of the HOL and its Members but I do have qualms about their view of the real world post brexit.

It's a disgrace the same humanity and sincerity wasn't demonstrated towards UK nationals living in EU countries, who,should the amendment go through could have a two year future of uncertainty and doubt about their status, which is what the Lords had so much concern about for EU nationals in the UK.

The Lords clearly still live in the era of Neville Chamberlain, where capitulation and appeasement are thought to be the way forward, it seems none of them have learnt from history!

If I was a UK national living in the EU, I would be both angry and saddened at what many will see as the UK having little concern for those working and living in the EU, and EU nationals being of more importance to the UK.

[brenflys777]

FiF said:

Lord Tebbit summed it up just like that, more concerned about EU nationals than UK citizens it appears.

That's the nub of it - of all the things they could try and make an impact with in the early vote - they chose to look after EU nationals interests first.

I'm keen for Article 50 to be triggered but if the Lords delay it, it's probably a price worth paying to get a reformed House of Lords back in contention. That would be glorious, free from the EU and a proportional representation type HoL - maybe select them the same way we get MEPs now - only not too many - HoL one third the size of HoC would seem ample.

[wc98]

dandarez said:

I just heard someone say this: Germany and France will now be pissing themselves. Do lefty Labour and LibDUMB Lords seriously believe that the EU will play fair - how naive they are? Or are they just playing party politics with the democratic will of the people?

Time we were now rid of most of this chamber.
Thought this for some time. I signed the last petition, it got only 306 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/35297056...
Signed!
A tad higher than the last time. I wonder why?

Mine has just made it 36,206 signatures.

looks like 80 or so between you and me signing. too many of the buggers as well. well overdue for reform.

[B'stard Child]

wc98 said:

dandarez said:

I just heard someone say this: Germany and France will now be pissing themselves. Do lefty Labour and LibDUMB Lords seriously believe that the EU will play fair - how naive they are? Or are they just playing party politics with the democratic will of the people?

Time we were now rid of most of this chamber.
Thought this for some time. I signed the last petition, it got only 306 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/35297056...
Signed!
A tad higher than the last time. I wonder why?

Mine has just made it 36,206 signatures.

looks like 80 or so between you and me signing. too many of the buggers as well. well overdue for reform.

mine just made it 38,667

[wc98]

FiF said:

Frankly is it any wonder that we, this country, are generally in a pickle. These people, supposedly the leaders, are just a set of flaming naive amateurs. Unbelievable at times.

never a truer word spoken. utterly incredulous decision. i can only think it was made to show the public the lords are actually involved in the decision making process or it is a stalling tactic for the entire process. it certainly makes no sense given negotiations have yet to begin.

[MrBarry123]

Oh my God, I bet peers are stting themselves...

Nearly 40,000 signatures.

[JawKnee]

Ooooo look! All of a sudden the Brexiters pretend to care about Brits living in Europe. You're not fooling anyone. You've fked over your fellow countrymen with your selfish vote.

[IroningMan]

The Lords do seem to be thrashing about on this - but they're doing so safe in the knowledge that the Commons can ignore them.

Less easy to ignore is the new PH meme which seems to be that any person, body or institution which doesn't automatically toe the hard Brexit party line must therefore be an enemy of the people, unfit for purpose and immediately reformed or abolished accordingly - irrespective of its stance on any other question. See also the Supreme Court.

As single-issue groups go we are painting a singularly unedifying picture of ourselves.

[grumbledoak]

Politicians are often bemoaning the lack of public engagement. Now they've got some.

[Thorodin]

There are no pawns in this game. Plenty of prawns though. It would be refreshing if the HoL had insisted on the EU agreeing in advance of A50 actually being in operation that there should be a unilateral acceptance of the rights of residence to those it concerns at the time of commencement of negotiations. The EU have repeatedly said that no negotiations will be entered into until A50 has been enacted. The HoL may have an inflated opinion of their worth, they are now not acting in the interests of the country or it's citizens living in the EU. The HoC will now merely return the bill to them for acceptance in its original form and the old duffers will have to accept it.

[Andy 308GTB]

JawKnee said:

Ooooo look! All of a sudden the Brexiters pretend to care about Brits living in Europe. You're not fooling anyone. You've fked over your fellow countrymen with your selfish vote.

Yawn...

[wc98]

IroningMan said:

The Lords do seem to be thrashing about on this - but they're doing so safe in the knowledge that the Commons can ignore them.

Less easy to ignore is the new PH meme which seems to be that any person, body or institution which doesn't automatically toe the hard Brexit party line must therefore be an enemy of the people, unfit for purpose and immediately reformed or abolished accordingly - irrespective of its stance on any other question. See also the Supreme Court.

As single-issue groups go we are painting a singularly unedifying picture of ourselves.

we have too many mp's,lords, mep's (not for much longer) councillors and civil servants , they could all do with being thinned out ,austere times don't you know.

as for putting in writing something we all want and expect before the negotiations with the eu that will involve reciprocation with eu resident uk citizens ,i think that shows a naivety that should not exist at that level of politics. i would have said stupidity over naivety ,but we all know that is not the case.

[CaptainSlow]

Deptford Draylons said:

Its a virtue signaling waste of time. It won't change anything.

Not really, the word on the street is that most Lords just want their views known and will vote the other way when it comes back rejected from the Commons. A petition with a few hundred thousand names will press them a little more.