Audi US shoots itself in the foot
Discussion
vonuber said:
It's a car advert that gives across quite a good message
Audi did not produce the advert because of civic responsibility. Rather it is a car company that is using the problem women have as a method to promote their sales.But then they would have known that regardless, they'd get talked of.
wsurfa said:
In previous roles I've had access to pay data for hundreds of thousands of direct & indirect employees across the world, and access to studies that have probably millions, that data did not show a like for like pay gap. This is corroborated by a recent report from Hay Group, which found a 0.8% like for like pay gap in the UK.
The headline gap is to do with representation in high paying functions and in high level roles. For example it is much more likely that you will find a female head of HR than a female head of sales, the head of sales position will be much higher paying than the head of HR. Also as you ascend the hierarchy it becomes dominated by men eg Fortune 500 are boards are under 20% women.
Do you know where I can find a copy of that report from the Hay Group? It's the first I've heard of that actually compares like for like, but doesn't appear to be readily accessible via googleThe headline gap is to do with representation in high paying functions and in high level roles. For example it is much more likely that you will find a female head of HR than a female head of sales, the head of sales position will be much higher paying than the head of HR. Also as you ascend the hierarchy it becomes dominated by men eg Fortune 500 are boards are under 20% women.
fblm said:
So not in fact "valued less than every man [she's] ever met" then?
Well that depends if a man has ever had his boss attempt to sack him when he got pregnant doesn't it - which is what happened to her with our first. Luckily as I said she has some brains and told them to do one.
amusingduck said:
Do you know where I can find a copy of that report from the Hay Group? It's the first I've heard of that actually compares like for like, but doesn't appear to be readily accessible via google
http://info.haygroupupdate.com/global-en-gender-pay-gap-white-paper.htmlYou'll need to register to download it below is a section from it.
vonuber said:
fblm said:
So not in fact "valued less than every man [she's] ever met" then?
Well that depends if a man has ever had his boss attempt to sack him when he got pregnant doesn't it - which is what happened to her with our first. Luckily as I said she has some brains and told them to do one.
fblm said:
Ok simple rhetorical question; do you think your wife and daughters, to use the exact wording in the advert, are valued less than every man they will ever meet? Do you even know anyone who actually thinks that?
Of course not - but my original post was in reference to the OP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVOPPg7rZ_s
American girl dissects and demolishes the Audi ad.
Worth watching I think
And not just cause she's HOT
EDIT
Surely if there was a wage gap. Companies would be full of women as it would be easier on the wage bill
American girl dissects and demolishes the Audi ad.
Worth watching I think
And not just cause she's HOT
EDIT
Surely if there was a wage gap. Companies would be full of women as it would be easier on the wage bill
Rich_W said:
Surely if there was a wage gap. Companies would be full of women as it would be easier on the wage bill
One of the reasons I don't take the supposed "wage gap" seriously is because of stories like this:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7640042/Fem...
Apparently council cleaners, cooks and care assistants took a case to court and argued that they should get paid the same as a refuse collector.
My question is this........if refuse collecting paid so much better, why didn't they simply apply for jobs doing refuse collecting
FredClogs said:
Data that makes reference to education levels without any mention of what the education was in.I would guess that men are more likely to study subjects that lead to higher paid jobs, it was certainly the case when I was at Uni. Like he said, all the factors are not taken into account.
Also there is no mention of how "increasing levels of education" relate to increased employability, if all the increase was in something employers don't value then the gap might actually widen with increasing education.
It's a bandwagon they didn't need to jump on.
Just f
k off please with your "look how appropriate we are" crap and just stick to making cars that I want to buy. Wherever you look you'll struggle to find a situation that is split 50/50 in gender terms, be that un employment, in sport, interests, the media, the arts, science...... Men are men are not women. There are differences. We just need to accept right now that we are not one androgenous or homogenous lump and that there will be variations and perceived injustice where one is looking for it.
Just f
k off please with your "look how appropriate we are" crap and just stick to making cars that I want to buy. Wherever you look you'll struggle to find a situation that is split 50/50 in gender terms, be that un employment, in sport, interests, the media, the arts, science...... Men are men are not women. There are differences. We just need to accept right now that we are not one androgenous or homogenous lump and that there will be variations and perceived injustice where one is looking for it.cymtriks said:
Given what you've said equality would suggest that the correct choice for your vacancy is a man.
The correct choice is the best qualified person of course. However, we do need to have more representative people in senior positions. This is NOT tokenism...I would not want to appoint someone who was not properly qualified. However, to make meaningful progress we should have proper representation of women at senior levels, and there is a shortage. I cannot be convinced that with the vast majority of CEOs being men we are there yet, for instance.
There has been progress...Mary Barra at GM, Meg Whitman at HP, Ginny Rometty at IBM and so on, but we have a long way to go. I have had a fair number of very qualified women report to me over my career at very senior levels, but i have never reported to a woman for instance. I am not some kind of ardent campaigner, but I do think there is something a bit strange that if half the population of the world is female, that this would not be a similar face of company leadership. If I had daughters I would certainly want them to have an equal chance at success.
cymtriks said:
I would guess that men are more likely to study subjects that lead to higher paid jobs,
is it a case of some jobs women do are likely to offer lower pay then ? whereas if they had traditionally been male dominated roles they would pay more ?case in point being female hr managers being paid less than male managers of different departments .
A company bought by the business I was working for a few years ago (2/3?) had a very obvious discrimatory position re paying females.
Successful female consultants received less bonus than males for same revenue generation. In addition there were cases of accounts being removed from female consultants and being made 'house accounts', this never happened for males.
In fact multiple, proven, lawsuits around the way female employees were treated re pay led the company to a position where we were able to secure it for a ridiculously low price. The all male Board was removed.
Another example,: a good mate of mine has a senior level position in a tech company in U.K. Turns out she was being paid at least 15k less than others at her level, all male. She has the requisite experience, is reconginsed as a strong performer and yet was being paid less than male colleagues including those less experienced in senior roles. She discovered this after two years in the job and challenged it - no real explanation was ever forthcoming but she did recieve a quick pay rise.
Two off the top of my head...
Successful female consultants received less bonus than males for same revenue generation. In addition there were cases of accounts being removed from female consultants and being made 'house accounts', this never happened for males.
In fact multiple, proven, lawsuits around the way female employees were treated re pay led the company to a position where we were able to secure it for a ridiculously low price. The all male Board was removed.
Another example,: a good mate of mine has a senior level position in a tech company in U.K. Turns out she was being paid at least 15k less than others at her level, all male. She has the requisite experience, is reconginsed as a strong performer and yet was being paid less than male colleagues including those less experienced in senior roles. She discovered this after two years in the job and challenged it - no real explanation was ever forthcoming but she did recieve a quick pay rise.
Two off the top of my head...
vonuber said:
It depresses me to think of the struggles my daughters are going to face as they grow up, especially when confronted with things like this thread.
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women.RDMcG said:
Stil great under-representation of women in senior executive roles...CEOs, general C level jobs. It is slowly getting better, but trying to find qualified women for board positions for instance is very difficult .
Am doing that now,
I'm sure there is.Am doing that now,
As with the older workers pay gap though that does depend on the career paths chosen by women who are now in their late 40s or 50s.
The fundamental objection I have is what is society supposed to do about it?, invent a time machine and go back and tell women in their 50s to choose a different career path?. Tell mothers not to take a career break or not to switch to part time working when they have children?
All the measures that companies will do to try and combat this will likely involve promoting women earlier and the group that will benefit, full-time women in the 22-40 age bracket, already do not have a pay gap.
It is a misuse of statistics to justify positive discrimination on behalf of a group in society who don't need it.
TheGuru said:
vonuber said:
It depresses me to think of the struggles my daughters are going to face as they grow up, especially when confronted with things like this thread.
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women."you are more likely to enter university than men (35% more likely), more likely to enter many of the professions than men (57% of new lawyers for example), and you will likely earn more than men your same age, but always remember you are helpless victims of Patriarchal oppression"
University admissions
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/may/12/...
Proportion of lawyers
http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/ne...
wsurfa said:
You'll need to register to download it below is a section from it.
Thanks for that, I'll register and have a read when I get chanceFredClogs said:
Your opinion is simply wrong. Whilst career choices and professional preferences account for some of the aggregated gap in earning all the studies I've read show that in like for like, hour for hour comparisons women earn less than men all other things being equal.
The good news is the gap is reducing across the board. It's a very strange topic to have a contrary or deliberately counter factual opinion on, if you have evidence to back up your opinion fair enough, I'd like to evaluate it, but as a matter of faith? Why? What's bothering you so much?
Lets revisit this shall we Fred. The good news is the gap is reducing across the board. It's a very strange topic to have a contrary or deliberately counter factual opinion on, if you have evidence to back up your opinion fair enough, I'd like to evaluate it, but as a matter of faith? Why? What's bothering you so much?
As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
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