Audi US shoots itself in the foot
Discussion
JagLover said:
TheGuru said:
vonuber said:
It depresses me to think of the struggles my daughters are going to face as they grow up, especially when confronted with things like this thread.
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women."you are more likely to enter university than men (35% more likely), more likely to enter many of the professions than men (57% of new lawyers for example), and you will likely earn more than men your same age, but always remember you are helpless victims of Patriarchal oppression"
University admissions
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/may/12/...
Proportion of lawyers
http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/ne...
BIANCO said:
Around 95% of in work death are men. How unfair and unbalanced we must try harder to make women feel that they are more equally represented.
It's about time we see more women coming home from war zone in bits. It's only fair that more women drown in human s
t has they climber down sewage pipes. We must strive to see more women doing st jobs that have a high risk of you getting ripped in two.
Cake and eat it springs to mind.
To be fair you're right. Equality is equality. It's about time we see more women coming home from war zone in bits. It's only fair that more women drown in human s
t has they climber down sewage pipes. We must strive to see more women doing st jobs that have a high risk of you getting ripped in two. Cake and eat it springs to mind.
However, I don't know many men that would stand idly by and watch a woman undertake those tasks.
So yes, cake and eat it.
jonnyb said:
BIANCO said:
Around 95% of in work death are men. How unfair and unbalanced we must try harder to make women feel that they are more equally represented.
It's about time we see more women coming home from war zone in bits. It's only fair that more women drown in human st has they climber down sewage pipes. We must strive to see more women doing st jobs that have a high risk of you getting ripped in two.
Cake and eat it springs to mind.
To be fair you're right. Equality is equality. It's about time we see more women coming home from war zone in bits. It's only fair that more women drown in human s
t has they climber down sewage pipes. We must strive to see more women doing st jobs that have a high risk of you getting ripped in two. Cake and eat it springs to mind.
However, I don't know many men that would stand idly by and watch a woman undertake those tasks.
So yes, cake and eat it.
amusingduck said:
Lets revisit this shall we Fred.
As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
It doesn't. I nor anyone else ever said the wage gap didn't reduce when certain factors are taken into consideration but the graphic in the post above from the Hays survey clearly shows a gap still exists. How on earth o you think it corroborates your point of view?As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
jonnyb said:
I wonder how many of those female lawyers become partners in top law firms?
Dont know - when you find out do let us know - but please remember to correct for carear breaks, hours worked, distance commuted etc.It's disingenuous to just look at a headline average and claim it's unfair and unequal - when all other factors that may lead to somebody becoming a partner arent equal.
You also need to remember that very senior management in many firms reflects the job market as it was 20 or 30 years ago. Changes in makeup of todays education and labour market will not be reflected in top management until the current crop of kids leaving school today start making it to those levels......which is likely to be in 20-30 years time.
FredClogs said:
amusingduck said:
Lets revisit this shall we Fred.
As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
It doesn't. I nor anyone else ever said the wage gap didn't reduce when certain factors are taken into consideration but the graphic in the post above from the Hays survey clearly shows a gap still exists. How on earth o you think it corroborates your point of view?As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
Not the 20 odd percent that your source claimed.
vonuber said:
TheGuru said:
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women.
In law yes. In attitude? Hardly.Women in the 21-30 bracket out earn men, on average.
Companies are pushing for more women in high level positions.
Both of these things are attitude, not law related. Both of these things will benefit your daughters.
fblm said:
Derek Smith said:
Audi puts advert on at the Superbowl in order to sell cars.
According to the Alliance Of Automobile Manufacturers women buy 60% of all new cars and influence the purchase of 85%, so it makes sense to target your advertising toward them. I know I get no say what so ever in what my Mrs buys and have to make a solid investment case before buying anything for myself!'Do I tell my daughter that... she will automatically be valued as less than every man she ever meets?"
WTF? No you don't tell her that you fvckwit because it isn't even remotely true outside of religious circles. I get that being controversial is terribly clever for advertisers but come on; what a pathetic ad. Fvck off Audi.
Edited by fblm on Tuesday 7th February 16:18
Ford could run a ad for an american built pickup that'd say european cars arent for real men which would be similary demeaning to its target markets percieved insecurties but I dont think most people seem to see the link.
amusingduck said:
Hardly?
Women in the 21-30 bracket out earn men, on average.
Companies are pushing for more women in high level positions.
Both of these things are attitude, not law related. Both of these things will benefit your daughters.
I agree with that (my own industry is pushing for it) - my point is more about attitude. Women in the 21-30 bracket out earn men, on average.
Companies are pushing for more women in high level positions.
Both of these things are attitude, not law related. Both of these things will benefit your daughters.
So rather than think 'oh how nice audi are doing an advert about gender equality' we get endless posts of how women are actually fine and should stop complaining (neatly ignoring a real example I gave where my other half was nearly fired for the crime of becoming pregnant).
You only need to read around ph to see the sort of attitudes I mean - snake with Tits being a favourite phrase, or say the default position when a man is being accused of rape is that the woman is lying.
It's that sort of thing which depresses me.
fblm said:
Ok simple rhetorical question; do you think your wife and daughters, to use the exact wording in the advert, are valued less than every man they will ever meet? Do you even know anyone who actually thinks that?
yep. You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
vonuber said:
TheGuru said:
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women.
In law yes. In attitude? Hardly.Vocal Minority said:
yep.
You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
Depends where you post it, the science forum will have different responses to the lounge. You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
Anyway so what? Women add unessecary sexual innuendo to serious conversations too. And several gay friends are terrible for it. But when one or two straight men do it, a certain mindset wants to define all others by them...
amusingduck said:
FredClogs said:
amusingduck said:
Lets revisit this shall we Fred.
As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
It doesn't. I nor anyone else ever said the wage gap didn't reduce when certain factors are taken into consideration but the graphic in the post above from the Hays survey clearly shows a gap still exists. How on earth o you think it corroborates your point of view?As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
Not the 20 odd percent that your source claimed.
vonuber said:
TheGuru said:
What a ridiculous assertion, your daughters will live in a society where there has never been so much equality and freedom for women.
In law yes. In attitude? Hardly.Women in the 21-30 bracket out earn men, on average.
Companies are pushing for more women in high level positions.
Both of these things are attitude, not law related. Both of these things will benefit your daughters.
amusingduck said:
FredClogs said:
amusingduck said:
Lets revisit this shall we Fred.
As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
It doesn't. I nor anyone else ever said the wage gap didn't reduce when certain factors are taken into consideration but the graphic in the post above from the Hays survey clearly shows a gap still exists. How on earth o you think it corroborates your point of view?As wsurfa kindly provided a link to a study which corroborates my "simply wrong" and "deliberately counter factual" opinion, perhaps you can now show us some of these numerous studies you keep referencing.
Not the 20 odd percent that your source claimed.
Also - what do the error bars look like on the data? It could be that at 0.8% we are getting close the realms of picking up the 'background noise' inherent in any statistical study. The closer we get to this background noise - the less certain we can be of saying whether any observed gap is in fact real.
Vocal Minority said:
yep.
You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
But this is a male dominated forum - so you are going to get an over representation of such attitudes. Some of these attitudes will be real of course - some will just be stupid banter between blokes. You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
If you trawled mumsnet or watched a few episodes of Loose Women - would you expect to find lazy stereotypical comments treating men as a homogeneous lump too?
jonnyb said:
I wonder how many of those female lawyers become partners in top law firms?
Around 20% of magic circle partners are women, with that proportion increasing, one of them had about 50% in the last partner promotion round (A&O I think).Given that it will take c 15 years post graduation to make partner it would be reasonable to assume that 15 years from the intakes being 50/50 there might be a roughly equal split of new promotions to partner. This ignores the likelihood that more women than men will take significant time out for children.
Given that even just a few years ago magic circle firms were under 50% female trainees, I would guess it's still a some way off for that group.
As you could expect c 10-15 years as partner, then a 50/50 of serving partners would be much later.
Overall more women than men have started as lawyers (all areas) since the mid nineties, so it's not surprising that the rates of partner promotions are rapidly increasing at the big firms over the last few years
jonnyb said:
I wonder how many of those female lawyers become partners in top law firms?
My wife was at 33, while she was heavily pregnant with our daughter... ok you can't extrapolate that but that's my/our experience.Vocal Minority said:
fblm said:
Ok simple rhetorical question; do you think your wife and daughters, to use the exact wording in the advert, are valued less than every man they will ever meet? Do you even know anyone who actually thinks that?
yep. You also see plenty of it on here. You could post something about a female scientist who just cured cancer and within ten posts the discussion would have turned to blokes saying they wouldn't bang her.
There is the lazy stereotypic of women as one homogenous lump with lots of fun 'typical woman' stories. So no consideration is given to the fact they are individuals.It took about 2 minutes for the 'that's because ALL women want babies' argument to come out on this thread.
So yes, yes I do know people who actually think that.
fblm said:
You think because men joke about who they would and wouldn't shag they value women less than every man as Audi claims society does? .
It's not just joking (that was an easy example off the top of my head - but the first place they go is would I/wouldn't I shag them, regardless of the reason they are noteworthy), I have seen men valuing women less than other men in action in the work place.
A lot of male grads who think it somehow makes them look like king big dick, to belittle women (not jokingly) and refuse to do some aspects of the job because its 'women's work'. The morons even do it in ear shot of female directors.
Seriously, if you don't think that exists you are either in denial, or are very sweet and very naïve.
I'm not caliming its universal - but its certainly not non-existant. You say its patently non-sense and then rely exclusively on non evidence based reasoning, because all the reasonably discoverable evidence contradicts your theory!
fblm said:
You think because men joke about who they would and wouldn't shag they value women less than every man as Audi claims society does? Do women not joke about the same things? I think they might, just not on car forums. It's patently nonsense that society values women less than all men, both in measurable pay/wealth and the simple observation that the vast majority of people arn't complete a5sholes without mothers, wives and daughters.
One could argue that historically - women have been viewed as much more valuable, if not via material wealth, then certainly for their societal role.Who traditionally got first dibs on lifeboats when a ship went down. Who was drafted as expendable canon fodder during the world wars. Who does the most dangerous jobs and gets killed most often at work.
Men have been 'expendable' for much of history and it's still true to a lesser extent even today.
Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 8th February 14:43
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