Cyclist ignores red light, gets hit, driver is prosecuted...
Discussion
irocfan said:
Not really - there are just certain norms of behaviour one would expect decent people to observe. Not sitting your sweaty bits in an eatery (likewise clothing covered in filth/dust/dirt/baby sick etc) would be high on that list. Y'know thinking of others rather than being selfish
HTH
Right. So a cafe owner who seeks exactly that customer base is doing it wrong then? HTH
Pachydermus said:
irocfan said:
heebeegeetee said:
irocfan said:
Smelly or not is pretty much irrelevant, it's just scummy/antisocial to sit on public seats if you're all sweaty
You need to take it up with the cafe owner, get them to clear out all those cyclists, just for you. I'm sure that'll work for them.HTH
Actually on second thoughts if you can't see that there's an issue with people inappropriately attired then quite frankly the problem lies with your lack of manners, thought and consideration for others. Pretty chavy behaviour in fact.
Kind of ironic given that you're bleating on about how car drivers don't respect cyclists.
heebeegeetee said:
Murph7355 said:
Which bit? "have to"? 
No, just the fact that it's impossible to pay a non existent tax.Forgive me if I've missed something and need a whoosh parrot, but you've never paid a penny of road fund in your life, it simply doesn't exist.
irocfan said:
Actually on second thoughts if you can't see that there's an issue with people inappropriately attired then quite frankly the problem lies with your lack of manners, thought and consideration for others. Pretty chavy behaviour in fact.
terribly sorry m'lud, I'll remember to don a suit and tie next time I'm visiting your gaff. I trust you'll be denying entry to any riff raff also not wearing similar attire - those ramblers can be particularly whiffy and don't get me started on the English who believe that showering once per week is all that's necessary. Pachydermus said:
terribly sorry m'lud, I'll remember to don a suit and tie next time I'm visiting your gaff. I trust you'll be denying entry to any riff raff also not wearing similar attire - those ramblers can be particularly whiffy and don't get me started on the English who believe that showering once per week is all that's necessary.
If you read the post old chap I believe I did mention dirty/mud-covered clothing & the like so wind your neck in a little. As for your anti English jibe I suppose I should be glad I'm not English 
Murph7355 said:
Pachydermus said:
...and don't get me started on those amongst the English who believe that showering once per week is all that's necessary...
It's increasingly clear you mix in the wrong circles...Soap dodging is 21 miles South of the UK.
And if the clientele that the cafe owner chooses to serve offend Iroc so much then I'd suggest he does what normal people do and go find somewhere else more to his liking.
Pachydermus said:
edited to be clearer, I don't mean all of them. My point is that there's plenty of sweaty, stinky, badly dressed people out there so why pick on a few cyclists?
And if the clientele that the cafe owner chooses to serve offend Iroc so much then I'd suggest he does what normal people do and go find somewhere else more to his liking.
There is a nice country cafe quite close to where I live (my reason for saying this will become clear later) - and where I live also tends to be very popular with the cycling community, both the types who go out with the road clubs, and the types who go "off road". In other words, we see a LOT of cyclists round my way. (rural Derbyshire) I don't ride anything like as much as I used to (I was a few hundred miles a week man at one time) but members of my family still ride, one of whom does so competitively both on the road and in cyclo cross. I am in no way anti bike, not am I anti cyclist, but blow me down reading this thread reminds me of some of the worst, most blinkered, utterly in denial, deflective of blame and downright deliberately argumentative cyclist attitudes I have seen over the years. And if the clientele that the cafe owner chooses to serve offend Iroc so much then I'd suggest he does what normal people do and go find somewhere else more to his liking.
In the real world where I live, it would be fair to say that the majority of cyclists are polite, thoughtful and considerate, both on AND off their bikes.
It would,sadly, also be fair to say that a significant minority are the exact opposite. And by significant I mean more than 30% in my experience. The bad behaviour includes riding through red lights, riding on pavements, riding in "packs" often 3 and 4 cyclists wide on busy roads, riding aggressively on paths designated as footpaths - I have been hit twice by cyclists careering through woodland and one nasty bugger actually kicked out at my dog as he went past! - and on one occasion two cyclists deliberately waved me into the path of an on coming vehicle (and laughed heartily at the mayhem they caused as a result)
In contrast the majority of considerate riders will ride aware of their surroundings and other road users, dismount or ride very slowly when passing pedestrians on pavements or country footpaths, thank pedestrians and other road users for THEIR consideration in either allowing themselves to be passed efficiently or being passed in a considerate way themselves.
And I find that that contrast in behaviour applies off the bikes too. That cafe I mentioned attracts bike folk, ramblers and other people just out for a pleasant stroll. The majority of riders will put their bikes against a wall, and if they are dirty or smelly they will typically sit at an outside table (unless the weather prevents this of course) The bad behavours will prop their bikes up against other tables (whether there are people already sitting at them or not) and will not take their personal hygiene, or the sensitivity of other patrons into account when deciding where to sit. Some will even use the cafe as a venue for scraping the excess mud and crap from their steeds, which they will then leave on the floor around the tables for everyone else to step in.
As i say, the contrast in behaviour between the belligerent 30%+ and the "normal" majority is clear.
I don't know you Mr P, but your attitudes displayed on this thread suggest you might just be a member of the 30%+ group.
Now, I know that there are many motorised vehicle operators who break the rules and who treat cyclists appallingly. Their behaviour is not acceptable. But they do not represent the majority of vehicle users in my experience and your attempt to use their behaviour as some sort of deflective strategy for the short comings for bad cyclists serves only to enhance the view that many of us see, namely that for some of you, cyclists can do no wrong, and nothing is ever their fault - even those that ride through red lights and comprehensively ignore common sense when they should be adopting riding strategies to protect their vulnerable selves.
andymadmak said:
Now, I know that there are many motorised vehicle operators who break the rules and who treat cyclists appallingly. Their behaviour is not acceptable. But they do not represent the majority of vehicle users in my experience and your attempt to use their behaviour as some sort of deflective strategy for the short comings for bad cyclists serves only to enhance the view that many of us see, namely that for some of you, cyclists can do no wrong, and nothing is ever their fault - even those that ride through red lights and comprehensively ignore common sense when they should be adopting riding strategies to protect their vulnerable selves.
I think you'll find I'm not one of the 30% and I welcome anyone to come and observe my riding or driving any time. At no point have I defended bad cyclists - they piss me off as much as the next person but what pisses me off even more is the hypocrisy coming from motorists who quite clearly have far worse habits, cause far, far more death and destruction and have either zero knowledge or blatant disregard for the rules they're supposed to be following who then come on here and complain that ALL cyclists are crap because they saw one run a red light once.
For you to claim that motorists who break the rules are a minority is just laughable.
Most importantly, when a cyclist disregards the rules the person they're most likely to cause harm to is themselves. When a motorist does it then it's most likely to be someone else.
So who are you really more worried about? The million plus uninsured, dangerous drivers and the many more millions not paying appropriate attention? Or a handful of tw*ts on bikes in London?
Pachydermus said:
andymadmak said:
Now, I know that there are many motorised vehicle operators who break the rules and who treat cyclists appallingly. Their behaviour is not acceptable. But they do not represent the majority of vehicle users in my experience and your attempt to use their behaviour as some sort of deflective strategy for the short comings for bad cyclists serves only to enhance the view that many of us see, namely that for some of you, cyclists can do no wrong, and nothing is ever their fault - even those that ride through red lights and comprehensively ignore common sense when they should be adopting riding strategies to protect their vulnerable selves.
I think you'll find I'm not one of the 30% and I welcome anyone to come and observe my riding or driving any time. At no point have I defended bad cyclists - they piss me off as much as the next person but what pisses me off even more is the hypocrisy coming from motorists who quite clearly have far worse habits, cause far, far more death and destruction and have either zero knowledge or blatant disregard for the rules they're supposed to be following who then come on here and complain that ALL cyclists are crap because they saw one run a red light once.
For you to claim that motorists who break the rules are a minority is just laughable.
Most importantly, when a cyclist disregards the rules the person they're most likely to cause harm to is themselves. When a motorist does it then it's most likely to be someone else.
So who are you really more worried about? The million plus uninsured, dangerous drivers and the many more millions not paying appropriate attention? Or a handful of tw*ts on bikes in London?
Your claim that the majority of motorists break the rules is backed up how? I suspect you're going to come up with something glib such as "everyone speeds on the motorway". So strictly speaking you win the internet with that logic.... But, the reality is that the majority of motorists do not break the rules insofar as their behaviours relating to cyclists or other road users are concerned. If they did, then there would be even more carnage on our roads!
The only person I can see on here making claims about "all xxxx group" or "all yyyy group" is you. Nobody has claimed that all cyclists are crap.. you are just making stuff up.
And why is it not possible to be concerned (worried in your vernacular) about bad behaviour in all road using groups at the same time? Why do I have to be more "worried" about one to the exclusion of others? Bizarre thinking on your part!
Finally it's not a handful of cyclists though is it, neither is poor behaviour confined to London.
andymadmak said:
1. Your claim that the majority of motorists break the rules is backed up how? I suspect you're going to come up with something glib such as "everyone speeds on the motorway". So strictly speaking you win the internet with that logic.... But, the reality is that the majority of motorists do not break the rules insofar as their behaviours relating to cyclists or other road users are concerned. If they did, then there would be even more carnage on our roads!
2. Finally it's not a handful of cyclists though is it, neither is poor behaviour confined to London.
1. Oh come on now, come on, you know that the vast overwhelming majority of motorists break rules and laws all the time. You know that, and trying to pretend otherwise is just wasting time. I imagine that apart from advanced drivers, pretty much everybody is breaking laws on each journey, and I'd be interested to know what percentage of motorists are advanced drivers. 2. Finally it's not a handful of cyclists though is it, neither is poor behaviour confined to London.
Myself, I've been driving for night on 40 years and I doubt I ever did a journey without knowingly doing something wrong. Probably driving too fast, but most often when I am I'm doing the same speed as everyone else around me.
And it is a valid point, that when things go wrong cyclists tend to hurt themselves whereas far too often motorists hurt someone else, which is completely unforgivable.
So what we have going on here on this site, are members of the group that tends to hurt others constantly attacking those who tend to hurt themselves, which seems massively hypocritical to me.
2. Speaking as someone who has spent most of the 40 years driving outside London, cyclists don't even begin to feature on my radar when driving. So no, for me it's still a hell of along way from even being a handful of cyclists causing me a problem. For me it's effectively no cyclists have ever caused me a problem, whereas that morass of cloying numptiness in cars causes me a problem on every single journey, pretty much.
heebeegeetee said:
2. Speaking as someone who has spent most of the 40 years driving outside London, cyclists don't even begin to feature on my radar when driving. So no, for me it's still a hell of along way from even being a handful of cyclists causing me a problem. For me it's effectively no cyclists have ever caused me a problem, whereas that morass of cloying numptiness in cars causes me a problem on every single journey, pretty much.
That is exactly the same for me. The only time I ever have problems with cyclists when I am driving is if I venture in to Richmond Park. Then it always seems to be three abreast, 10mph up hills, 35mph down them (the whole park is a 20mph limit), but getting furious with motorists if they put a foot wrong or try to overtake them safely within the speed limit. I only cycle in the park myself now (not badly like that I might add!)Apart from that, I can't think of the last time I had an issue caused by a cyclist when I am driving, and I always see plenty of them out and about. I don't really ever drive during the day in central London, though, that might change my experience somewhat.
heebeegeetee said:
Hackney said:
1. You hope that he got a ticket for nothing? or you hope he lied to get sympathy (saying it was amber and everyone goes through on amber don't they, when it was actually red)?
3. So you agree the cyclist committed an offence?
1. How do you know it was on red.3. So you agree the cyclist committed an offence?
3. I've only got the Daily Mail to go with, it's not a reliable source.
heebeegeetee said:
1. Oh come on now, come on, you know that the vast overwhelming majority of motorists break rules and laws all the time. You know that, and trying to pretend otherwise is just wasting time. I imagine that apart from advanced drivers, pretty much everybody is breaking laws on each journey,
You imagine wrong then. Leafy Cheshire is an utopia for the law abiding motorist. The only possible law ever transgressed here is hindering other road users due to slow driving. Andy's description of a hardcore of nuisance cyclists rings very true in Cheshire/Staffs/Derbys. I'd hazard a guess you live in a major conurbation where overcrowding, speeding and impatience from all kinds of traffic influence your opinion, but to assume everywhere else in the country is the same is just daft. Pachydermus said:
... who then come on here and complain that ALL cyclists are crap because they saw one run a red light once.
Well, don't include me. Despite your numerous attempts to make me out to be something I'm not and your suggestions I spout BS on here, there are many threads where I praise riders and suggest how often I am thanked by them etc.Much the same as drivers, many riders are great, many are stupid.
It's the stupid ones that concern me as they may end up underneath my vehicle if I can't keep track of them etc.
I don't want to kill anyone.
popeyewhite said:
I'd hazard a guess you live in a major conurbation where overcrowding, speeding and impatience from all kinds of traffic influence your opinion, but to assume everywhere else in the country is the same is just daft.
I do indeed, but I've also driven pretty widely and I stand by my statement. heebeegeetee said:
1. Oh come on now, come on, you know that the vast overwhelming majority of motorists break rules and laws all the time. You know that, and trying to pretend otherwise is just wasting time. I imagine that apart from advanced drivers, pretty much everybody is breaking laws on each journey, and I'd be interested to know what percentage of motorists are advanced drivers.
Myself, I've been driving for night on 40 years and I doubt I ever did a journey without knowingly doing something wrong. Probably driving too fast, but most often when I am I'm doing the same speed as everyone else around me.
And it is a valid point, that when things go wrong cyclists tend to hurt themselves whereas far too often motorists hurt someone else, which is completely unforgivable.
So what we have going on here on this site, are members of the group that tends to hurt others constantly attacking those who tend to hurt themselves, which seems massively hypocritical to me.
2. Speaking as someone who has spent most of the 40 years driving outside London, cyclists don't even begin to feature on my radar when driving. So no, for me it's still a hell of along way from even being a handful of cyclists causing me a problem. For me it's effectively no cyclists have ever caused me a problem, whereas that morass of cloying numptiness in cars causes me a problem on every single journey, pretty much.
Myself, I've been driving for night on 40 years and I doubt I ever did a journey without knowingly doing something wrong. Probably driving too fast, but most often when I am I'm doing the same speed as everyone else around me.
And it is a valid point, that when things go wrong cyclists tend to hurt themselves whereas far too often motorists hurt someone else, which is completely unforgivable.
So what we have going on here on this site, are members of the group that tends to hurt others constantly attacking those who tend to hurt themselves, which seems massively hypocritical to me.
2. Speaking as someone who has spent most of the 40 years driving outside London, cyclists don't even begin to feature on my radar when driving. So no, for me it's still a hell of along way from even being a handful of cyclists causing me a problem. For me it's effectively no cyclists have ever caused me a problem, whereas that morass of cloying numptiness in cars causes me a problem on every single journey, pretty much.
^^Seriously.^^
If YOU wish to see a biased hypocrite, then YOU need only look in the mirror,
Edited by Mandalore on Friday 24th February 18:10
heebeegeetee said:
popeyewhite said:
I'd hazard a guess you live in a major conurbation where overcrowding, speeding and impatience from all kinds of traffic influence your opinion, but to assume everywhere else in the country is the same is just daft.
I do indeed, but I've also driven pretty widely and I stand by my statement. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff