Cyclist ignores red light, gets hit, driver is prosecuted...

Cyclist ignores red light, gets hit, driver is prosecuted...

Author
Discussion

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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pablo said:
The rider had no reason to slow. Now I appreciate he is the fleshy vulnerable road user in this instance and comes off worse than the car but had he slowed down it would further encourage the car to turn right across his path and the driver may then expect every cyclist to do the same.

That's why it's dangerous to act in a way that is not in accordance with the highway code,
Well, you can reach into your ripped pocket with a broken and bloodied arm and drag that book out and quote it.

I'll be sure to say "Spot on mate" as I ride past, dodging around the debris.

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Digby said:
The car in the clip is still moving...obvious to someone looking ahead and who has a level of self-preservation or training.
Yes, cars have to move to get places.

Driver sees other car/cyclist/whatever and doesn't turn in front of them (apart from when they crash).

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Wha?

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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The car would need to be moving to get to the junction and stop. Sorry, probably wasn't clear.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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I'm not sure what point you are making, sorry.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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The cyclist should at least cover his brakes and be prepared to stop. Thats what i do when i see a car thats obviously looking to cross my path.

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Digby said:
If you don't like it, rather than telling others how you want them to ride, ride as the guy in the video did.
I'm not telling people how to ride, they are free to make their own decisions. It's more a commentary on the above type situations where it is often about reaction times and how an event unfolds.

It's all well and good saying 'I would have been going more slowly' or 'I would have stopped', but there becomes a point where accidents can become unavoidable.

Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against defensive riding/driving, but going to the extremes suggested appears to be taking things a bit far.

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Digby said:
I'm not sure what point you are making, sorry.
The point I'm making is that it is normal for people stop and give way just before turning, which doesn't give much time to tell if they are going to give way or not.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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RicharDC5 said:
there becomes a point where accidents can become unavoidable.
I know. I said so above.


RicharDC5 said:
going to the extremes suggested appears to be taking things a bit far.
Like slamming on brakes, being rear-ended, having to live where there is no traffic, stopping at every single junction, prefering to crash due to the Highway Code etc?

Those are the only extremes I have seen posted here, none of them from me.

Everything I am talking of relates to that clip and situations just like those.

Two cars, one still moving, assume the worst is about to happen (given you should know how often it does)

You either do as I and others here do, or you do as the rider in clip does.

It's not a very difficult choice imho.

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Digby said:
prefering to crash due to the Highway Code etc?
I'd prefer not to crash regardless.

I'll quote this again
'The point I'm making is that it is normal for people stop and give way just before turning, which doesn't give much time to tell if they are going to give way or not.'

It's interesting to see that your earlier posts in the thread were highlighting the stupidity of the cyclist which should have stopped, without commenting on the driver.

And now we have moved on to a different clip and apparently the cyclist should have stopped, when it is the drivers responsibility to give way.

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Digby said:
Exaggerating much?

The car in the clip is still moving...obvious to someone looking ahead and who has a level of self-preservation or training.

There is another car on the left. It's a dodgy situation and demands caution.

Trying to defend the riders actions by suggesting "slamming on brakes" and "Rear-ended" etc are laughable.

Everyone here suggesting they would have slowed a great deal, will unlikely ever get hit in such a situation.

No doubt, like myself, others have avoided being hit in such situations.

That's a simple fact. There's no reason to debate it.

If you don't like it, rather than telling others how you want them to ride, ride as the guy in the video did.

I certainly won't be. I didn't even as a kid.
All this over one short clip.

In an earlier post you described the cyclist as the bigger idiot of the two. Well:

The cyclist isn't the one who is going to kill someone else if they continue to operate like that.
The cyclist isn't the one of the two who stops me cycling or motor cycling.
The cyclist isn't the one who contributes to such suppressed levels of cycling in this country.
The cyclist isn't the one for whom the term 'Smidsey' was coined.
It isn't because of the cyclist that you apparently slow to a crawl at every junction; if you're doing that in your hgv you'll have the ever-present queue of cars behind, all of whom also have to crawl past every junction where another car is present. The needless delay is ridiculous. Which leads on to:
It isn't the cyclist causing these delays.
It isn't the cyclist contributing to us apparently losing 32 hours of our lives annually to congestion.
It isn't the cyclist costing us £30 billion per year due to congestion.
It isn't the cyclist causing our insurance premiums to be what they are.

Honest to god I will take your "bigger idiot" over that car driver every single time. There are millions of drivers like that out there, and the harm and congestion and needless delay they all combine to...

I couldn't give a kipper what the cyclists do, I really couldn't, and for the life of me I don't know why you are so troubled by them. As I said before, it really doesn't make an ounce of sense.


Pacman1978

394 posts

102 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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kingston12 said:
When I am cycling myself, a lot of the bad treatment that I have received from drivers seems to stem from the fact that other cyclists are routinely misbehaving - it's not my fault but I still get blamed for it.
+1 to that.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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RicharDC5 said:
I'd prefer not to crash regardless.

I'll quote this again
'The point I'm making is that it is normal for people stop and give way just before turning, which doesn't give much time to tell if they are going to give way or not.'

It's interesting to see that your earlier posts in the thread were highlighting the stupidity of the cyclist which should have stopped, without commenting on the driver.

And now we have moved on to a different clip and apparently the cyclist should have stopped, when it is the drivers responsibility to give way.
I agree with your first point. Why are you telling me? I know this and ride / drive based on exactly what you are saying. Some do not...like the person in the clip.

Regarding the earlier comments, I was told a rider jumped a red and got hit by a car going on green. Why would I need to comment on the driver? He's in a tin box, going on a green. Even going about that the wrong way, why would someone not in a tin box jump a red?

You are getting desperate with the last comment. I said the driver was the typical 'didn't see you' type of driver and an idiot. Earlier I said I'll never defend idiots in cars and trucks and that I see many of them. Nothing has changed. The driver in the clip is a blind idiot and as I said, a very, very typical one.

So typical that I wouldn't have crashed had I been that rider.

RicharDC5

3,892 posts

126 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Digby said:
RicharDC5 said:
I'd prefer not to crash regardless.

I'll quote this again
'The point I'm making is that it is normal for people stop and give way just before turning, which doesn't give much time to tell if they are going to give way or not.'

It's interesting to see that your earlier posts in the thread were highlighting the stupidity of the cyclist which should have stopped, without commenting on the driver.

And now we have moved on to a different clip and apparently the cyclist should have stopped, when it is the drivers responsibility to give way.
I agree with your first point. Why are you telling me? I know this and ride / drive based on exactly what you are saying. Some do not...like the person in the clip.

Regarding the earlier comments, I was told a rider jumped a red and got hit by a car going on green. Why would I need to comment on the driver? He's in a tin box, going on a green. Even going about that the wrong way, why would someone not in a tin box jump a red?

You are getting desperate with the last comment. I said the driver was the typical 'didn't see you' type of driver and an idiot. Earlier I said I'll never defend idiots in cars and trucks and that I see many of them. Nothing has changed. The driver in the clip is a blind idiot and as I said, a very, very typical one.

So typical that I wouldn't have crashed had I been that rider.
Fair enough, I agree with you. I also drive/cycle/ride motorbikes and take a slightly different view. I'm not sure if you have an axe to grind, or if I'm being a bit defensive. I'm just highlighting the contrast in your comments.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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My only contrast would apply to me, also.

Which would label me as more stupid / foolish?

Passing through a green light in my car, jumping a red light on my bike?

That's all I meant.

You take a chance and it can end up costing you a great deal more when riding a bike.

It was comical to me to see how a certain someone here wanted the red light ignored and tried to suggest the main focus should be car drivers who have no idea how to use a green and that most assume it simply means it's safe to go.

To most, that is absolutely what it means. That makes riders even more stupid for jumping a red.

We know drivers like this exist, why chance it on a bike?

For every single negative thing you can post about car, bus and HGV drivers, you make riders who take any sort of chance look even more foolish.




heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Digby said:
So typical that I wouldn't have crashed had I been that rider.
Had you been that rider, what would you have done if the car had set off some 2 seconds later and ran you down, as often happens. The driver hadn't seen the cyclist so could have proceeded forward at any time.

The reason I ask, I'm curious as to how you have such control over other drivers, or where your faith in other drivers comes from.

Hol

8,353 posts

199 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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Pacman1978 said:
kingston12 said:
When I am cycling myself, a lot of the bad treatment that I have received from drivers seems to stem from the fact that other cyclists are routinely misbehaving - it's not my fault but I still get blamed for it.
+1 to that.
If it helps,

I can name a few obvious candidates for you. wink



Although I hadn't realised that Rock Bottom had a basement only they could access until I read some of the comments on this thread. redcard





Hackney

6,810 posts

207 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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heebeegeetee said:
Hackney said:
1. The cyclist also can't remember what happened.
2. The driver's offence seems to be proceeding when it was not safe to do so, rather than proceeding when he should not have.


3. As I said before: without the cyclist the driver has committed no offence. Without the driver the cyclist has still committed an offence, don't you agree?
1. The cyclist says he's been ticketed for going through an amber. I hope this is untrue, because this is something that drivers do daily en masse, delaying other drivers who have priority.

2. Oh dear god! Still, the mind of the motorist.

3. I totally agree that in any situation where should the circumstances be different, the circumstances would have been different.

If my aunt had bks she'd be my uncle, so I'm don't see the value in "if". Why not just stick to the reality?
1. You hope that he got a ticket for nothing? or you hope he lied to get sympathy (saying it was amber and everyone goes through on amber don't they, when it was actually red)? TBH I'd rather they issue a ticket for everyone who goes through on amber.
2. What? I apoligise if I didn't correctly define the offence but I don't believe there's an offence of going through a green light (no matter what mode of transport). However the driver proceeded when it wasn't safe to do so, because of the cyclist (who, as you'll note committed an offence) He was rightly charged, fined etc. What has whether I'm a motorist, cyclist or whatever got to do with it?
3. So you agree the cyclist committed an offence?

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Hackney said:
1. You hope that he got a ticket for nothing? or you hope he lied to get sympathy (saying it was amber and everyone goes through on amber don't they, when it was actually red)?
3. So you agree the cyclist committed an offence?
1. How do you know it was on red.

3. I've only got the Daily Mail to go with, it's not a reliable source.

kingston12

5,473 posts

156 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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heebeegeetee said:
I couldn't give a kipper what the cyclists do, I really couldn't, and for the life of me I don't know why you are so troubled by them. As I said before, it really doesn't make an ounce of sense.
I care about what they do. It is still dangerous, just not as dangerous.

I was reminded of this thread this morning as I waited at a crossing on Waterloo Road in London on my way into the office.

It is a busy crossing and probably fifty people start crossing as soon as the 'green man' comes on. About halfway across, I hear a shout coming from a cyclist who wants everyone to get out of the way so he can come through on a red light.

Everyone holds back apart from one lady who is either very foolhardy or doesn't hear him because she is listening to music. He eventually brakes, but still hits her and knocks her over.

The cyclist somehow doesn't fall and rides straight off and the lady is helped up and seems to be only shaken rather than harmed.

Had a car or lorry done the same, she'd have likely been killed, so I accept that the cyclist doing it didn't cause as much harm, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to do it.