Cyclist ignores red light, gets hit, driver is prosecuted...

[Pachydermus]

Moonhawk said:

Pachydermus said:

let's see:
constantly exceed speed limits.
park on the wrong side of the road or just wherever the hell you like.
don't cede priority where you're supposed to.
don't give way to pedestrians when turning left.
don't indicate correctly.
run red lights.
MLM
kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year.

And that answers the question that was asked how exactly?

As for your statement on KSI stats - assuming you are talking about the UK, you are way off. The KSI stat for 2015 was 8,642.

Even factoring in slight injuries - that only takes it to 111,707 which is quite a way off a "few hundred thousand" (where a "few" in common vernacular is usually taken to mean 3 or more)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 16th February 15:00

from page 1 of your document:

DfT said:

There was a total of 186,189 casualties of all severities in 2015.

[Pachydermus]

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

crankedup said:

But why do some cycle riders blatantly ignore so much traffic legislation and plain common sense

let's see:
constantly exceed speed limits.
park on the wrong side of the road or just wherever the hell you like.
don't cede priority where you're supposed to.
don't give way to pedestrians when turning left.
don't indicate correctly.
run red lights.
MLM
kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year.


how am I doing so far?

ps - I'm not talking about cyclists.

There are lots of crap motorists yes, and very many threads discussing their flaws.

Every crap cyclist thread gets "wah wah wah motorists are crap wah" and it's like, yeah, theres crap plumbers, doctors, shop assistants out there too but it's not pertinent. the existence of crap motorists doesnt absolve you of anything, if anything it should make cyclists more cautious...

the point is it's usually motorists who are bleating on about crap cyclists while ignoring their own far more dangerous crap driving.
I'd love to see all red-light runners strung up from the lights but let's at least be honest about where the biggest danger comes from.

[crankedup]

^^^^^^
The biggest danger comes from vehicle drivers not driving with 100% caution and pedal bikers not riding with 100% caution.
When the two meet in collision guess who gets squashed I have to reiterate, pedal bikers are at mos risk if I were on a push bike I would make darn sure I didn't jump red lights nor would I engage in daft riding two and three abreast on country lanes.
This merely to to my best ensuring I could enjoy a pint in the evening.

[Moonhawk]

Pachydermus said:

from page 1 of your document:

There was a total of 186,189 casualties of all severities in 2015.

Yep - I hadn't factored all road users, my mistake.

However - that still doesn't support your assertion that car drivers "kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year".

The vast majority of injuries that contribute to that 186,189 figure are slight injuries - the KSI figure for all road users in 2015 was 23,874 (page 2 of that document) - and a number of those will not have involved a car at all.

[popeyewhite]

WinstonWolf said:

Park on the zig-zags outside school. Oh wait, that's not cyclists either

Wait - you mean none of those drivers cycle as well? Highly unlikely!

[Fastdruid]

chow pan toon said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

... with driving without due care and attention.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4226984/Cy...

The driver admitted the offence so maybe you should be rolling your eyes at him.

Given that it appears he's being offered a course and I'm certain could afford decent representation I imagine he was advised to admit to it.

Yes sure he might be found not guilty but it's just as likely he could get points and a large fine (plus of course solicitors fees either way) when he could just hold his hands up, do a course and it's done with.

[Pachydermus]

Moonhawk said:

The vast majority of injuries that contribute to that 186,189 figure are slight injuries - the KSI figure for all road users in 2015 was 23,874 (page 2 of that document) - and a number of those will not have involved a car at all.

I didn't mention car drivers in that comment and was alluding to "drivers of motor vehicles".
I have a permanently buggered finger thanks to a blind motor vehicle driver. I'm pretty sure that won't be included in the stats as the police didn't bother attending and I took myself to a&e later but I assure you it's not something you'd choose to live with so I've no problem counting the total number which in reality will be much higher than reported.

[hairyben]

Pachydermus said:

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

crankedup said:

But why do some cycle riders blatantly ignore so much traffic legislation and plain common sense

let's see:
constantly exceed speed limits.
park on the wrong side of the road or just wherever the hell you like.
don't cede priority where you're supposed to.
don't give way to pedestrians when turning left.
don't indicate correctly.
run red lights.
MLM
kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year.


how am I doing so far?

ps - I'm not talking about cyclists.

There are lots of crap motorists yes, and very many threads discussing their flaws.

Every crap cyclist thread gets "wah wah wah motorists are crap wah" and it's like, yeah, theres crap plumbers, doctors, shop assistants out there too but it's not pertinent. the existence of crap motorists doesnt absolve you of anything, if anything it should make cyclists more cautious...

the point is it's usually motorists who are bleating on about crap cyclists while ignoring their own far more dangerous crap driving.
I'd love to see all red-light runners strung up from the lights but let's at least be honest about where the biggest danger comes from.

And round and round it goes.

[TSCfree]

Seems a fair result. The cyclist took the biggest risk and has paid a far greater price. The motorist perhaps won't make the same assumption again...

[Pachydermus]

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

crankedup said:

But why do some cycle riders blatantly ignore so much traffic legislation and plain common sense

let's see:
constantly exceed speed limits.
park on the wrong side of the road or just wherever the hell you like.
don't cede priority where you're supposed to.
don't give way to pedestrians when turning left.
don't indicate correctly.
run red lights.
MLM
kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year.


how am I doing so far?

ps - I'm not talking about cyclists.

There are lots of crap motorists yes, and very many threads discussing their flaws.

Every crap cyclist thread gets "wah wah wah motorists are crap wah" and it's like, yeah, theres crap plumbers, doctors, shop assistants out there too but it's not pertinent. the existence of crap motorists doesnt absolve you of anything, if anything it should make cyclists more cautious...

the point is it's usually motorists who are bleating on about crap cyclists while ignoring their own far more dangerous crap driving.
I'd love to see all red-light runners strung up from the lights but let's at least be honest about where the biggest danger comes from.

And round and round it goes.

take a look at the video in the other thread of the guy getting left hooked. What else could he possibly have done? You may think that's an odd exception but jump on a bike and you'll see that level of dangerous driving all day every day. You can be as cautious as you like and you develop a 6th sense for a lot of the stupidity but if someone is determined to try and kill you with their crap driving there's absolutely nothing you can do.

[hairyben]

Pachydermus said:

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

hairyben said:

Pachydermus said:

crankedup said:

But why do some cycle riders blatantly ignore so much traffic legislation and plain common sense

let's see:
constantly exceed speed limits.
park on the wrong side of the road or just wherever the hell you like.
don't cede priority where you're supposed to.
don't give way to pedestrians when turning left.
don't indicate correctly.
run red lights.
MLM
kill and seriously injure a few hundred thousand every year.


how am I doing so far?

ps - I'm not talking about cyclists.

There are lots of crap motorists yes, and very many threads discussing their flaws.

Every crap cyclist thread gets "wah wah wah motorists are crap wah" and it's like, yeah, theres crap plumbers, doctors, shop assistants out there too but it's not pertinent. the existence of crap motorists doesnt absolve you of anything, if anything it should make cyclists more cautious...

the point is it's usually motorists who are bleating on about crap cyclists while ignoring their own far more dangerous crap driving.
I'd love to see all red-light runners strung up from the lights but let's at least be honest about where the biggest danger comes from.

And round and round it goes.

take a look at the video in the other thread of the guy getting left hooked. What else could he possibly have done? You may think that's an odd exception but jump on a bike and you'll see that level of dangerous driving all day every day. You can be as cautious as you like and you develop a 6th sense for a lot of the stupidity but if someone is determined to try and kill you with their crap driving there's absolutely nothing you can do.

WOOOSSSH!

[Cliftonite]

Europa1 said:

Halb said:

That's good.

The amount of people going through on lights have have been red long enough for your lights to go green is increasing in my mind.

Certainly seems to be the case in Cambridge - yellow used to mean slow down and stop, now it seems to mean "nail it and go through regardless" and red is "absolutely boot it, it's only recently gone red, what could possibly go wrong?"

Could this be a result of the ever increasing numbers of traffic lights that we now meet, at every other crossroads, or three times around one roundabout? Are people just getting pissed off with having to stop, often totally unnecessarily, every few hundred yards or so?

[Hoofy]

Cliftonite said:

Europa1 said:

Halb said:

That's good.

The amount of people going through on lights have have been red long enough for your lights to go green is increasing in my mind.

Certainly seems to be the case in Cambridge - yellow used to mean slow down and stop, now it seems to mean "nail it and go through regardless" and red is "absolutely boot it, it's only recently gone red, what could possibly go wrong?"

Could this be a result of the ever increasing numbers of traffic lights that we now meet, at every other crossroads, or three times around one roundabout? Are people just getting pissed off with having to stop, often totally unnecessarily, every few hundred yards or so?

The situation you describe might be the case but that still doesn't mean you can jump a red light.

[Digby]

Europa1 said:

and red is "absolutely boot it, it's only recently gone red, what could possibly go wrong?"

But at least they acknowledge the red and don't just go through and mix it up with oncoming vehicles no matter what.

Much like they don't tend to drive through pedestrian crossings, dodging left and right, to avoid hitting people.

[heebeegeetee]

crankedup said:

if I were on a push bike I would make darn sure I didn't jump red lights

What do you do as a pedestrian? Pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclists, yet from what I see, experience and of course do myself, at lights controlled crossings once the traffics moved off peds cross the road en masse and don't give a fig for what colour the lights on.

Are you the sad loner that stays behind and waits for the green?

[WinstonWolf]

popeyewhite said:

WinstonWolf said:

Park on the zig-zags outside school. Oh wait, that's not cyclists either

Wait - you mean none of those drivers cycle as well? Highly unlikely!

Now we're getting there, it's not the mode of transport, it's the user...

[caelite]

alock said:

Parsnip said:

That is exactly what the law is saying. If a cyclist/pedestrian/child/horse appears in front of your car when they shouldn't then it is your responsibility as a driver not to hit them. Doesn't mean they are right and doesn't mean they won't be prosecuted, but it does (rightly or wrongly - rightly IMO) mean you will get the book thrown at you if you hit them.

In this 'Think Bike' advert, do you think the motorcyclist should have the book thrown at them for failing to not hit the car?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI8-_9FrB4

Personally I prefer this one:
https://youtu.be/jRNRqfGAk8o

And yes I agree, the cyclist created a hazard on the road and is the root cause of the accident, however the driver may not have done everything expect of a reasonable motorist in order to avoid the collision (hence the prosecution).

[popeyewhite]

WinstonWolf said:

popeyewhite said:

WinstonWolf said:

Park on the zig-zags outside school. Oh wait, that's not cyclists either

Wait - you mean none of those drivers cycle as well? Highly unlikely!

Now we're getting there, it's not the mode of transport, it's the user...

Precisely, cyclists masquerading as normal humans park their cars outside schools as well, damn them.

[NDA]

TSCfree said:

The motorist perhaps won't make the same assumption again...

Maybe I've missed some vital point here, but the motorist set off when the light was green didn't he? The cyclist went through a red light...

[Kawasicki]

a green light is no excuse to just drive though a junction, you should slow enough to ensure you have clear passage, sometimes this will mean crawling through a junction on green, with everybody behind you thinking you are a really crap driver, but that is ok, 'cause it's safer.