Cyclist ignores red light, gets hit, driver is prosecuted...
Discussion
andymadmak said:
There is a nice country cafe quite close to where I live (my reason for saying this will become clear later) - and where I live also tends to be very popular with the cycling community, both the types who go out with the road clubs, and the types who go "off road". In other words, we see a LOT of cyclists round my way. (rural Derbyshire) I don't ride anything like as much as I used to (I was a few hundred miles a week man at one time) but members of my family still ride, one of whom does so competitively both on the road and in cyclo cross. I am in no way anti bike, not am I anti cyclist, but blow me down reading this thread reminds me of some of the worst, most blinkered, utterly in denial, deflective of blame and downright deliberately argumentative cyclist attitudes I have seen over the years.
In the real world where I live, it would be fair to say that the majority of cyclists are polite, thoughtful and considerate, both on AND off their bikes.
It would,sadly, also be fair to say that a significant minority are the exact opposite. And by significant I mean more than 30% in my experience. The bad behaviour includes riding through red lights, riding on pavements, riding in "packs" often 3 and 4 cyclists wide on busy roads, riding aggressively on paths designated as footpaths - I have been hit twice by cyclists careering through woodland and one nasty bugger actually kicked out at my dog as he went past! - and on one occasion two cyclists deliberately waved me into the path of an on coming vehicle (and laughed heartily at the mayhem they caused as a result)
In contrast the majority of considerate riders will ride aware of their surroundings and other road users, dismount or ride very slowly when passing pedestrians on pavements or country footpaths, thank pedestrians and other road users for THEIR consideration in either allowing themselves to be passed efficiently or being passed in a considerate way themselves.
And I find that that contrast in behaviour applies off the bikes too. That cafe I mentioned attracts bike folk, ramblers and other people just out for a pleasant stroll. The majority of riders will put their bikes against a wall, and if they are dirty or smelly they will typically sit at an outside table (unless the weather prevents this of course) The bad behavours will prop their bikes up against other tables (whether there are people already sitting at them or not) and will not take their personal hygiene, or the sensitivity of other patrons into account when deciding where to sit. Some will even use the cafe as a venue for scraping the excess mud and crap from their steeds, which they will then leave on the floor around the tables for everyone else to step in.
As i say, the contrast in behaviour between the belligerent 30%+ and the "normal" majority is clear.
I don't know you Mr P, but your attitudes displayed on this thread suggest you might just be a member of the 30%+ group.
Now, I know that there are many motorised vehicle operators who break the rules and who treat cyclists appallingly. Their behaviour is not acceptable. But they do not represent the majority of vehicle users in my experience and your attempt to use their behaviour as some sort of deflective strategy for the short comings for bad cyclists serves only to enhance the view that many of us see, namely that for some of you, cyclists can do no wrong, and nothing is ever their fault - even those that ride through red lights and comprehensively ignore common sense when they should be adopting riding strategies to protect their vulnerable selves.
thank you for putting this in way more polite terms than I was about to. In the real world where I live, it would be fair to say that the majority of cyclists are polite, thoughtful and considerate, both on AND off their bikes.
It would,sadly, also be fair to say that a significant minority are the exact opposite. And by significant I mean more than 30% in my experience. The bad behaviour includes riding through red lights, riding on pavements, riding in "packs" often 3 and 4 cyclists wide on busy roads, riding aggressively on paths designated as footpaths - I have been hit twice by cyclists careering through woodland and one nasty bugger actually kicked out at my dog as he went past! - and on one occasion two cyclists deliberately waved me into the path of an on coming vehicle (and laughed heartily at the mayhem they caused as a result)
In contrast the majority of considerate riders will ride aware of their surroundings and other road users, dismount or ride very slowly when passing pedestrians on pavements or country footpaths, thank pedestrians and other road users for THEIR consideration in either allowing themselves to be passed efficiently or being passed in a considerate way themselves.
And I find that that contrast in behaviour applies off the bikes too. That cafe I mentioned attracts bike folk, ramblers and other people just out for a pleasant stroll. The majority of riders will put their bikes against a wall, and if they are dirty or smelly they will typically sit at an outside table (unless the weather prevents this of course) The bad behavours will prop their bikes up against other tables (whether there are people already sitting at them or not) and will not take their personal hygiene, or the sensitivity of other patrons into account when deciding where to sit. Some will even use the cafe as a venue for scraping the excess mud and crap from their steeds, which they will then leave on the floor around the tables for everyone else to step in.
As i say, the contrast in behaviour between the belligerent 30%+ and the "normal" majority is clear.
I don't know you Mr P, but your attitudes displayed on this thread suggest you might just be a member of the 30%+ group.
Now, I know that there are many motorised vehicle operators who break the rules and who treat cyclists appallingly. Their behaviour is not acceptable. But they do not represent the majority of vehicle users in my experience and your attempt to use their behaviour as some sort of deflective strategy for the short comings for bad cyclists serves only to enhance the view that many of us see, namely that for some of you, cyclists can do no wrong, and nothing is ever their fault - even those that ride through red lights and comprehensively ignore common sense when they should be adopting riding strategies to protect their vulnerable selves.
Yes there are dreadful drivers, yes there are dreadful cyclists and the majority of both are actually normal people. Most people see a cyclist they give a wide berth (yes some cut it too close - more to do with unfamiliarity than malice, not that it matters it the cyclist is hurt!), most cyclists do no ride 4 abreast... the problem is that people don't remember all the 'good ones' they just remember the bad. This is common for anything in all walks of life. This is why people talk mainly about bent cops, blood-sucking lawyers, greedy bankers etc etc
NDA said:
heebeegeetee said:
morass of cloying numptiness in cars causes me a problem on every single journey, pretty much.
Could it be the way you're riding? Or are you always in the right?popeyewhite said:
Most motorists outside of big cities plod along going about their daily business, content to sit at 10 mph under the legal limit. The UK has never had such a high % of drivers over 50 years old, or high % of speed cameras, or number of drivers banned for accumulating over a tiny 12 points. Most people drive with the temerity of mice. God knows where you've driven "pretty widely"- Russia?
Yep, over 1/2 a million are so safe they don't even need insurance!
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