45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2
Discussion
If he manages to somehow do all the things he said he would do regarding restoring jobs to America etc, then all power to him.
But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
spaximus said:
But what if Eric, he is right?
<snip>
Whatever, he will go down in history as one of the most interesting presidents, nothing boring at all.
I don't think anyone thinks he is boring! I like The Simpsons but I wouldn't want Homer Simpson running the USA. Ditto a small army of celebs and fictional characters who range from interesting to controversial to violent to funny. <snip>
Whatever, he will go down in history as one of the most interesting presidents, nothing boring at all.
The US, like us over Brexit, is fairly evenly split. Chances are the split is 40/20/40 - the two 40s are entrenched and the swaying 20 in the middle hold the balance of power.
The question "what if he is right" is one to ask of the part of the 20 in the middle who put him in the WH because that's the group who will remove him. Trump's strategy has two basic limbs: tear down/rip through the establishment and deliver bread and honey to the masses. If he can do the latter he might get away with the former. But if he ends up succeeding only in doing the former, or that eclipses everything else he does, I can't see that appealing to the 20 in the middle who hold the balance of power. They are by definition moderate centrists. The people who just want to see everything burn are firmly in the 40. They are not who he has to appeal to.
Eric Mc said:
If he manages to somehow do all the things he said he would do regarding restoring jobs to America etc, then all power to him.
But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
Spot on Eric, repeating the expression "Fake News" many times ain't gonna make it a true statement. He needs to crack on with the job or step aside and let a grown up do it. Acting like a petulant child with his index finger permanently attached to his thumb and attacking the press smacks of an unhinged person with serious personal issues.But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
Funkycoldribena said:
The trouble is a section of society cant handle this sort of break from the norm,it puts them out of their comfort zone and it scares them and thats why we even hear the words 'petrified' etc even on this thread.
The trouble is the section of society are republican judges who have judged his action on some issues to be wrong. He is a bully, bankrupt businessman who is not willing to adapt to the way government actually works. Promising to reopen coal mines and steel works isn't going to make that happen as they were uneconomic so went out of business, even his own buildings were not made out of US steel.Digby said:
Eric Mc said:
He's an easy target for a reason.
Ah! You mean like bullying, at school, with children?
spaximus said:
But what if Eric, he is right? Remember Harold Wilson was not liked by some in the civil service who were plotting against him. Are the establishment fearful things will never be the same again if they don't crush him?
When you look at everything that has been thrown against him during the election process, if even half was true, Why did the American people still vote him in. Ignoring all the popular vote nonsense. They still felt he was the best where it counted most.
Did the American people agree with him that the media was biased and they ignored the reporting. I have never witnessed so much be thrown at one man and whatever he does will be pulled apart by some.
But what if he creates jobs? What if he makes a difference in the Inner cities, Obama did do so well there?
Why are people so surprised he is doing the things he said he would do, is it because no other elected politicians has tried to keep his promise?
I think that his failure on the travel ban for example, was the legal advice he had was it was within his power to do so. The courts felt otherwise and he has lost. He will come back with another one or alternatively he has homeland so busy with coming up with an extreme vetting process, that he may well not need one.
Whatever, he will go down in history as one of the most interesting presidents, nothing boring at all.
I personally think he is both narcissistic and a bit thick. But I would sooner a village idiot be in charge who intended to govern in the interests of the people, than a MENSA member who would govern only in the interests of the elites.When you look at everything that has been thrown against him during the election process, if even half was true, Why did the American people still vote him in. Ignoring all the popular vote nonsense. They still felt he was the best where it counted most.
Did the American people agree with him that the media was biased and they ignored the reporting. I have never witnessed so much be thrown at one man and whatever he does will be pulled apart by some.
But what if he creates jobs? What if he makes a difference in the Inner cities, Obama did do so well there?
Why are people so surprised he is doing the things he said he would do, is it because no other elected politicians has tried to keep his promise?
I think that his failure on the travel ban for example, was the legal advice he had was it was within his power to do so. The courts felt otherwise and he has lost. He will come back with another one or alternatively he has homeland so busy with coming up with an extreme vetting process, that he may well not need one.
Whatever, he will go down in history as one of the most interesting presidents, nothing boring at all.
As I said before judge on actions not whipped up hysteria, in media that has a palpable desperation to maintain the status quo.
The fact that many seem to think that the most powerful elected official in the USA should not be able to confront the establishment is very telling. "You may have been elected by the great unwashed but now it is time to defer to the elites".
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 18th February 06:25
Funkycoldribena said:
Im pretty sure Trump will last the full term despite the desperation shown on here (reminds me of the 'could the uk turn the ref result' thread) which had the same wishful thinking.
We were told he would never win the primary, we were then told he would never win the election, now we are told he wont last his term of office....Funkycoldribena said:
The trouble is a section of society cant handle this sort of break from the norm,it puts them out of their comfort zone and it scares them and thats why we even hear the words 'petrified' etc even on this thread.
Im pretty sure Trump will last the full term despite the desperation shown on here (reminds me of the 'could the uk turn the ref result' thread) which had the same wishful thinking.
It is not a ‘section of society’. It is just ordinary people, from all walks of life, who are concerned by Trump, and with damn good reason. The unhinged 3AM tweets, pathological lying and ignorance of seemingly just about everything pertaining to his new job are a concern to many, not necessarily because of any political leaning, just common sense. Im pretty sure Trump will last the full term despite the desperation shown on here (reminds me of the 'could the uk turn the ref result' thread) which had the same wishful thinking.
Speculation Trump will not last the full term is not ‘desperation’. He has been in office for one month and thus far it has been an absolute cavalcade of f
kwittery. It simply seems logical to consider the possibility he won’t last a full term. p1stonhead said:
Yes making fun of the most powerful grown man (not a kid) in the world who is playing at being a president whilst sitting on billions of dollars and who attacks everyone who calls him out on his blatant lies is the same as picking on a vulnerable school kid.
It's what children do, that was my point.It always amazes me how passionate people will get once they have locked their teeth into a subject.
So what do you think is about to happen to change your life now he's in charge?
JagLover said:
We were told he would never win the primary, we were then told he would never win the election, now we are told he wont last his term of office....
Someone has put together a wonderful clip of dozens of episodes of TV programs etc with those saying Trump could or will win being laughed at by hysterical audience members etc.Nothing stirs emotion more so than not only losing, but realising you look a bit of a tit for being so sure you wouldn't.
Digby said:
p1stonhead said:
Yes making fun of the most powerful grown man (not a kid) in the world who is playing at being a president whilst sitting on billions of dollars and who attacks everyone who calls him out on his blatant lies is the same as picking on a vulnerable school kid.
It's what children do, that was my point.It always amazes me how passionate people will get once they have locked their teeth into a subject.
So what do you think is about to happen to change your life now he's in charge?
You think people on here are somehow worried or scared. We're not. He is just a f
king moron and it's interesting to see the things he is doing. That's all it is. Like watching a gorilla in a zoo throwing his own st at people. Mildly amusing from behind glass (the Atlantic) but less amusing for the people in range of the throws (which is the whole of America)JagLover said:
I personally think he is both narcissistic and a bit thick. But I would sooner a village idiot be in charge who intended to govern in the interests of the people, than a MENSA member who would govern only in the interests of the elites.
As I said before judge on actions not whipped up hysteria, in media that has a palpable desperation to maintain the status quo.
The fact that many seem to think that the most powerful elected official in the USA should not be able to confront the establishment is very telling. "You may have been elected by the great unwashed but now it is time to defer to the elites".
But an allegedly billionaire businessman who pays no tax, because he's smart, is governing on behalf of the people, and not his own self interest?As I said before judge on actions not whipped up hysteria, in media that has a palpable desperation to maintain the status quo.
The fact that many seem to think that the most powerful elected official in the USA should not be able to confront the establishment is very telling. "You may have been elected by the great unwashed but now it is time to defer to the elites".
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 18th February 06:25
There's no whipped up hysteria from the media, they are simply reporting each step into his chaotic presidency. Do expect them not to report this utter shambles? Would you prefer, as others here seem to, to have a North Korean or perhaps Russian style media fawning over the president with topless photos of him on horseback doing manly pursuits?
He has not confronted the elites, he's tried to bully rooms full of reporters. The minute he releases his tax returns and shows his businesses pay full US tax then he can start talking about confronting elites.
968 said:
Why would it be suicide? They'd still be in government and would have an allegedly straight President in Pence who's an insider. They haven't got congressional elections for another 2 years so plenty of time to repair the damage Trump is doing and actually taking action with policy.
I think this is very misguided IMO.The Republican party is a coalition of different interests, as any party in a FPTP system must be.
There was story a few months back that Trump prepared for his presidential run by listening to conservative talk radio, and one thing that would have come through loud and clear on that is the rage a large chunk of the Republican base felt toward their own leadership. Many now seem to think that that same leadership can knife the "champion of the working man" and suffer no consequences. No matter how prominently Pence brandishes his bible he would not be an acceptable substitute for millions of those who voted for Trump.
It would be suicide as i've said. The voters may not turn to the Democrats but if enough stay at home it would decide dozens of swing seats.
It would be entirely different if there were any genuine private financial benefit for Trump from Russia. But personally I think all the Flynn affair showed was an administration desperate to move at hundreds of miles an hour from the start and so conducting diplomacy when they shouldn't. A consequence really of America's rather strange delayed inauguration, a legacy from when everyone had to travel to Washington by horse. Here there is no worry about "private citizens conducting diplomacy" as the day after the election the new leader is off to see the queen.
Digby said:
JagLover said:
We were told he would never win the primary, we were then told he would never win the election, now we are told he wont last his term of office....
Someone has put together a wonderful clip of dozens of episodes of TV programs etc with those saying Trump could or will win being laughed at by hysterical audience members etc.Nothing stirs emotion more so than not only losing, but realising you look a bit of a tit for being so sure you wouldn't.
It will be interesting to see the reaction of the people who voted for him if he fails to deliver real, tangible change...
JagLover said:
It would be entirely different if there were any genuine private financial benefit for Trump from Russia. But personally I think all the Flynn affair showed was an administration desperate to move at hundreds of miles an hour from the start and so conducting diplomacy when they shouldn't. A consequence really of America's rather strange delayed inauguration, a legacy from when everyone had to travel to Washington by horse. Here there is no worry about "private citizens conducting diplomacy" as the day after the election the new leader is off to see the queen.
968 said:
But an allegedly billionaire businessman who pays no tax, because he's smart, is governing on behalf of the people, and not his own self interest?
There's no whipped up hysteria from the media, they are simply reporting each step into his chaotic presidency. Do expect them not to report this utter shambles? Would you prefer, as others here seem to, to have a North Korean or perhaps Russian style media fawning over the president with topless photos of him on horseback doing manly pursuits?
He has not confronted the elites, he's tried to bully rooms full of reporters. The minute he releases his tax returns and shows his businesses pay full US tax then he can start talking about confronting elites.
Saying he pays no tax because he's smart is a bit of a leap. He doesn't handle his own tax affairs, he employs people to do that for him. I'm sure it will come out one day and his defence will be that he employs experts for these things and it will be all their fault and he can't be held responsible because he only did what they said was right. Because I think he's that kind of person. There's no whipped up hysteria from the media, they are simply reporting each step into his chaotic presidency. Do expect them not to report this utter shambles? Would you prefer, as others here seem to, to have a North Korean or perhaps Russian style media fawning over the president with topless photos of him on horseback doing manly pursuits?
He has not confronted the elites, he's tried to bully rooms full of reporters. The minute he releases his tax returns and shows his businesses pay full US tax then he can start talking about confronting elites.
Totally agree though, what a shambles. I'm not particularly affected by American politics but this guy is making Bush Jr look like a clever and effective politician.
paulguitar said:
It is not a ‘section of society’. It is just ordinary people, from all walks of life, who are concerned by Trump, and with damn good reason.
Exactly. There's a section of this forum, as in real life, who love to equate the crying, sobbing extreme end of the leftist spectrum as seen on tv/youtube with anyone at all who expresses disapproval or concern with Trump's actions. In fact of course those crying types are as risible to the vast majority of anti-Trump types as the pro faction. It's just a lazy tool to reach for to denigrate and close down debate, along with all the other pathetic epithets they've come up with. And they wonder why they get abuse back 
Eric Mc said:
We have moved on.
This is a new game - and Trump doesn't even know the rules. He's in the big league now with people who know how it all works.
Abe Lincoln (as ever) knew exactly how it works.
You can fool some of the people all of the time.
You can fool all of the people some of the time.
But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Trump is going to find this out pretty damn fast - I suspect.
This is a new game - and Trump doesn't even know the rules. He's in the big league now with people who know how it all works.
Abe Lincoln (as ever) knew exactly how it works.
You can fool some of the people all of the time.
You can fool all of the people some of the time.
But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Trump is going to find this out pretty damn fast - I suspect.
Playing to the crowd will get him so far, but if he doesn't produce results they will turn on him. Of course he does seem pretty good at it, so he might get away with it by continuing to shout at the press.As far as direct effects on us: one of the biggest players on the world stage is changing direction and that will have knock on effects. Russia could get bolder, NATO could get weaker, our trade negotiations could go either way, Iran and North Korea could kick off, Mexico's economy could tank (resulting in more ilgak immigrants and drugs...).
Of course the opposite is also possible, Russia might form a beautiful alliance, NATO might be improved by less US influence, Mexico might pay for the wall and suffer no ill effects as a consequence.
But I'm not optimistic. Still, it's entertaining enough at the moment.
Borroxs said:
Saying he pays no tax because he's smart is a bit of a leap. He doesn't handle his own tax affairs, he employs people to do that for him. I'm sure it will come out one day and his defence will be that he employs experts for these things and it will be all their fault and he can't be held responsible because he only did what they said was right. Because I think he's that kind of person.
Totally agree though, what a shambles. I'm not particularly affected by American politics but this guy is making Bush Jr look like a clever and effective politician.
It's his own statement that he pays no tax, "because I'm smart".Totally agree though, what a shambles. I'm not particularly affected by American politics but this guy is making Bush Jr look like a clever and effective politician.
allnighter said:
Eric Mc said:
If he manages to somehow do all the things he said he would do regarding restoring jobs to America etc, then all power to him.
But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
Spot on Eric, repeating the expression "Fake News" many times ain't gonna make it a true statement. He needs to crack on with the job or step aside and let a grown up do it. Acting like a petulant child with his index finger permanently attached to his thumb and attacking the press smacks of an unhinged person with serious personal issues.But at the moment, 100% of his energy seems to be being poured into castigating and shouting at his perceived "enemies" - mostly other American institutions.
Making enemies of the organs he actually NEEDS to help hiom fulfill what he promised is dumb in the extreme.
He needs to get his head down and start to work for the American people instead of holding snap press conferences so he can slag off the media.
He is coming over as being extremely paranoid, bordering on completely mental.
It is also highly satisfying to know that the term fake news originated in the MSM as a tool to regain control of the narrative after being caught red handed producing vast quantities of, wait for it -- fake news.
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