45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2
Discussion
mickytruelove said:
unrepentant said:
It wasn't illegal. It was ill advised but not illegal at that time. Not an offense.
The fact they tried to cover it up and lied every step of the way says to me they knew it was illegal. Everytime i bash HRC i seem to be a trump supported. Im not, but what HRC done should be investigated properly and not covered up. jmorgan said:
Healthcare vote on hold now. Not sure of the result apparently?
Perhaps more intimidation required.
Reports are saying that Trump is going to force the vote today on the basis that it's today or never: if his plan is rejected there will no coming back to Obamacare. It will stay in place, he will move onto the next thing on his legislative list and the Congressmen who didn't vote for him can hang in the 2018 midterms. Perhaps more intimidation required.
That is certainly one way to negotiate and for all I know it might work. It's not really the craftwork of what I'd think is a great negotiator though: it's pretty one dimensional (here's a tiny window in which you decide between my way or the highway).
But in terms of the bigger picture I wonder whether this is all of a piece with Bannon's ideal of tearing down government. Present plans, watch them fail, blame judges/Congress/someone else.
Greg66 said:
jmorgan said:
Healthcare vote on hold now. Not sure of the result apparently?
Perhaps more intimidation required.
Reports are saying that Trump is going to force the vote today on the basis that it's today or never: if his plan is rejected there will no coming back to Obamacare. It will stay in place, he will move onto the next thing on his legislative list and the Congressmen who didn't vote for him can hang in the 2018 midterms. Perhaps more intimidation required.
That is certainly one way to negotiate and for all I know it might work. It's not really the craftwork of what I'd think is a great negotiator though: it's pretty one dimensional (here's a tiny window in which you decide between my way or the highway).
But in terms of the bigger picture I wonder whether this is all of a piece with Bannon's ideal of tearing down government. Present plans, watch them fail, blame judges/Congress/someone else.
Lets assume for a second that Trump gets his plan in but the Dems win next time, wont they just scrap his plan and go straight back to Obamacare or someting similar?
How does long term laws work? Isnt Obamacare one? How can Trump just destroy it? And if he can, whats to stop someone destroying his?
p1stonhead said:
Can someone explain to me how laws work in the US?
Lets assume for a second that Trump gets his plan in but the Dems win next time, wont they just scrap his plan and go straight back to Obamacare or someting similar?
How does long term laws work? Isnt Obamacare one? How can Trump just destroy it? And if he can, whats to stop someone destroying his?
Don't things like this have to be voted through? I suspect his play here is that he believes the electorate want the reform he's shouting about. He was elected on it,one presumes, amongst other things. Lets assume for a second that Trump gets his plan in but the Dems win next time, wont they just scrap his plan and go straight back to Obamacare or someting similar?
How does long term laws work? Isnt Obamacare one? How can Trump just destroy it? And if he can, whats to stop someone destroying his?
What he seems to be saying is "pull your fingers out and get off the fence and vote. Just beware that I believe the electorate want this".
If they (Congress?) fail to vote or to vote it through, it's on them.
It's not what you'd call smooth playing of the system, negotiating, cajoling, persuading etc. Consensus politics. But then I don't see that as ever being on his agenda. And I strongly suspect that might be another reason why he was voted in.
Being prevented from doing things because they are fundamentally wrong and/or voted against is one thing. But I suspect politicking and blocking down to playing the man will backfire heavily and demonstrate people have learned nothing over the last 12mths.
We live in seriously interesting times from a political and social perspective.
Murph7355 said:
Don't things like this have to be voted through? I suspect his play here is that he believes the electorate want the reform he's shouting about. He was elected on it,one presumes, amongst other things.
What he seems to be saying is "pull your fingers out and get off the fence and vote. Just beware that I believe the electorate want this".
If they (Congress?) fail to vote or to vote it through, it's on them.
It's not what you'd call smooth playing of the system, negotiating, cajoling, persuading etc. Consensus politics. But then I don't see that as ever being on his agenda. And I strongly suspect that might be another reason why he was voted in.
Being prevented from doing things because they are fundamentally wrong and/or voted against is one thing. But I suspect politicking and blocking down to playing the man will backfire heavily and demonstrate people have learned nothing over the last 12mths.
We live in seriously interesting times from a political and social perspective.
Don't think he was voted in on the basis of healthcare. What he seems to be saying is "pull your fingers out and get off the fence and vote. Just beware that I believe the electorate want this".
If they (Congress?) fail to vote or to vote it through, it's on them.
It's not what you'd call smooth playing of the system, negotiating, cajoling, persuading etc. Consensus politics. But then I don't see that as ever being on his agenda. And I strongly suspect that might be another reason why he was voted in.
Being prevented from doing things because they are fundamentally wrong and/or voted against is one thing. But I suspect politicking and blocking down to playing the man will backfire heavily and demonstrate people have learned nothing over the last 12mths.
We live in seriously interesting times from a political and social perspective.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp...
Edited by jjlynn27 on Friday 24th March 09:15
Trump fulfils on election promise, woman who voted for him ain't happy;
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-restaur...
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-restaur...
Murph7355 said:
Being prevented from doing things because they are fundamentally wrong and/or voted against is one thing. But I suspect politicking and blocking down to playing the man will backfire heavily and demonstrate people have learned nothing over the last 12mths.
That is the real crunch though, is it not?If republicans voting against it as a result of pressure from their constituents then they are between a rock and a hard place.
We will not know until the time, however I would strongly suspect that given the fact that they are still backing Trump to the hilt that any dissenting voters would be as a result of pressure as opposed to principles which is why I wonder if it might backfire some.
I wouldn't like to be a congresscritter facing a president saying move it or lose it and on the other side a bunch of angry people who vote you in saying don't move.
berlintaxi said:
Trump fulfils on election promise, woman who voted for him ain't happy;
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-restaur...
Harsh.http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-restaur...
I guess you just shouldn't let that sort of thing slip, he should have sorted out his status and paperwork years ago.
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
p1stonhead said:
Can someone explain to me how laws work in the US?
Lets assume for a second that Trump gets his plan in but the Dems win next time, wont they just scrap his plan and go straight back to Obamacare or someting similar?
How does long term laws work? Isnt Obamacare one? How can Trump just destroy it? And if he can, whats to stop someone destroying his?
Trump has a position (repeal and replace) but to turn it into law he needs to get it passed by Congress (equivalent to the Commons) and the Senate (elected upper Chamber; equivalent sort of to the Lords). Trump signs the legislation into law at the end of it as Head of State. Lets assume for a second that Trump gets his plan in but the Dems win next time, wont they just scrap his plan and go straight back to Obamacare or someting similar?
How does long term laws work? Isnt Obamacare one? How can Trump just destroy it? And if he can, whats to stop someone destroying his?
The Reps presently have a majority in Congress and the Senate so are in a good position to make legislative changes. If the Dems win back control of all three branches then yes, in theory they could undo Trumpcare and reinstate Obamacare. But there needs to be a public appetite for legislative change back, and generally speaking that's quite rare.
There seem to be genuine issues with Obamacare in that the compulsory insurance aspect doesn't work well when there is only one insurance provider in an area to choose from. Possibly other issues too; I'm not that well up on the detail. Trump's stuck though with a proposal (his) that retains far too much of Obamacare for the conservative wing of the Reps and gets rid of far too much of it for the centrist wing. So even with the alignment of majorities, the Oval Office and some appetite for change in the country, he is struggling to implement what he wants.
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
I think you are doing well at shaming yourself mate
jjlynn27 said:
Don't think he was voted in on the basis of healthcare.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp...
Doesn't that link suggest exactly the opposite? The chap in the article felt Trump would deal with the addiction his son died of. What he's pissed at is the reforms now being proposed pull the plug on elements that might have helped addiction...? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp...
roachcoach said:
That is the real crunch though, is it not?
If republicans voting against it as a result of pressure from their constituents then they are between a rock and a hard place.
We will not know until the time, however I would strongly suspect that given the fact that they are still backing Trump to the hilt that any dissenting voters would be as a result of pressure as opposed to principles which is why I wonder if it might backfire some.
I wouldn't like to be a congresscritter facing a president saying move it or lose it and on the other side a bunch of angry people who vote you in saying don't move.
I suspect I'm naive, but if their constituents are saying don't vote for it, I'd expect those congressmen to be lobbying Trump and his advisors and expressing the views of the proles. If they don't listen, then vote it down, explaining to your constituents why. If republicans voting against it as a result of pressure from their constituents then they are between a rock and a hard place.
We will not know until the time, however I would strongly suspect that given the fact that they are still backing Trump to the hilt that any dissenting voters would be as a result of pressure as opposed to principles which is why I wonder if it might backfire some.
I wouldn't like to be a congresscritter facing a president saying move it or lose it and on the other side a bunch of angry people who vote you in saying don't move.
On the other hand, if they agree that this is as good a compromise for reform as is possible, they should be trying to sell that to people.
?
The "problem" with many Western systems right now is they are split so squarely down the middle that trying to fundamentally change anything is nigh on impossible. "Put up or shut up" in those circumstances may well end up being more successful one way or another than trying for an impossible consensus.
If we look at Brexit (as I'm more familiar with it) for example, how do you "consider the views of the large minority" if they are mutually exclusive to the larger majority (eg want FoM and don't want FoM). You cannot.
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
I think you are doing well at shaming yourself mate
More ironic namecalling to ensue, no doubt.
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
I think you are doing well at shaming yourself mate
More ironic namecalling to ensue, no doubt.
"What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax."
"Was Sandy Hook a drill that was turned into a public hoax by the use of doctored photos in the interest of an agenda?"
"Why not instead produce the death certificates of the murdered children if not photos? Why not prove with utility bills, school bus routes, and other evidence that the school was in operation and not closed due to numerous problems that the school is claimed to have had?"
"In place of evidence such as bodies, body bags, death certificates, we have what appear to be faked photographs. Why?"
"Moreover, the Connecticut government refused to release evidence that would confirm that the shootings did take place."
These means he isnt sure it happened. That means he is mental.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:53
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
Brilliant summary of many of the events of the past few months from PCR. Truth teller -- never disappoints.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
Truth Teller indeed.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/paul-crai...
On Sandy Hook
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/01/sandy-h...
What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax.
On the Orlando Nightclub Shooting
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/13/orlando...
So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?
Pathetic excuse of a human being. As are you if you think hes right.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:08
I see no issues with either of those articles.
I think you are doing well at shaming yourself mate
More ironic namecalling to ensue, no doubt.
"What is disturbing to me is that I do not know if Sandy Hook is a real event or a hoax."
"Was Sandy Hook a drill that was turned into a public hoax by the use of doctored photos in the interest of an agenda?"
"Why not instead produce the death certificates of the murdered children if not photos? Why not prove with utility bills, school bus routes, and other evidence that the school was in operation and not closed due to numerous problems that the school is claimed to have had?"
"In place of evidence such as bodies, body bags, death certificates, we have what appear to be faked photographs. Why?"
These means he isnt sure it happened. That means he is mental.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:51
Perhaps edit your post again, it reinforces your insecurity on the topic.
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