45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2
Discussion
Alpinestars said:
unrepentant said:
Trump reported to be "fuming" because his two most trusted advisors, Ivanka and Jared, spent the week on the slopes in Aspen while the bungling bigot struggled to get his healthcare bill passed.
Did he not manage to get his game of golf in? It's the Democrats' fault it didn't get through isn't it? Or is the HOR Republican?So no healthcare reform, no EO keeping Muslims out. Now, what's happening with that wall?
He will be able to say HE signed an EO to keep the Muslims out. Day One! He said it and he did it! "they" said it couldn't be done! And HE created a bill to scrap Obamacare! The corrupt global liberal MSM elites said HE couldn't do it! But he did it folks. It was tremendous! Great Bill and he signed an EO to Build That Wall! Day one folks. He said it and he did it....
Now everybody who is this side of the Sanity border can see he's actually achieved f
k all. But there are plenty of people who'll accept what he says at face value. He's getting stronger, not weaker.Efbe said:
Murph, I spent a couple of days only posting in support of Trump, to give an objective position.
I presented sensible, sane arguments without hysteria or fiction.
Had a decent enough debate and raised some decent points, but had absolutely no useful backup from the Trumpites on here, so I got bored and returned to reality.
brilliant!I presented sensible, sane arguments without hysteria or fiction.
Had a decent enough debate and raised some decent points, but had absolutely no useful backup from the Trumpites on here, so I got bored and returned to reality.
scherzkeks said:
davepoth said:
scherzkeks said:
Healthcare bill was played well, IMO. No one wants Ryancare. Trump's ultimatum was a wise move, as he can wash his hands of the issue now. We should have gotten single payer; but it is of no concern to me. Healthcare in Germany is excellent. 
Played well for Trump, not particularly great for the GOP or for the country though. He's only looking out for Trump. IMO It was an awful bill - fudged beyond belief with no clear direction or vision, but it's unsurprising that it's that bad since they tried to ram it through congress so quickly.
Down the road there may be a new opportunity, and in the meantime, all of the problems of Obamacare will persist, further tarnishing the Drone Ranger's legacy.
Wise choice. The sad part for us is that Trump is actually the last chance for decent health care. No establishment corporate crony from the Dems or Reps is going to step up (not that Trump necessarily will either). Single payer is a pipe dream.
jjlynn27 said:
Highly entertaining. Resident nutjobs; 'Y'know, this is actually good for Trump he played a blinder'. The bill that he was pushing, the same bill he was chasing people's votes for, now that even Reps are saying; 'Listen, it's a ste bill, O'care is better than this'. But local faithful see the bigger picture.
Comedy central.
Must be tough to be so wrong so often. Let me know when your Russian truther theory pans out. te bill, O'care is better than this'. But local faithful see the bigger picture. Comedy central.
Alpinestars said:
...If that leads to the hard of thinking to go out and vote for people like him, so be it....
And there you go.It's not "so be it" is it? If it was, there wouldn't be the bleating as by "so be it" you would accept the result of a democratic vote a little more gracefully. Moreover isn't it more important to try and persuade people that the route they're taking is "so much worse"? You don't do that this way, do you?
Play the outcomes rather than the man. And play the wider position. Why the hell could the opposition not beat a party that is quite evidently in disarray? And a lead protagonist who is so obviously not...traditionally skilled...for the role he now has? How is the legal system seemingly delaying actions for what seem like trivial reasons (I'm not talking the original 7-country ban debacle, but the second go)?
In many ways the situation is playing into his hands. As Countdown notes he's tried to implement some of the things he was voted in against. But is failing. Now some of that is undoubtedly poor process. Some will be poor advice. But some seems to be the system not wanting to adapt and stickig two fingers up at him regardless of whether the electorate want the action or not or whether it's founded with some sense or not?
If all people are able to do is play the man and make snide comments, do you think that will lead to improved choice for the US electorate in 4yrs' time? I don't. Do you think Trump is as bad as it could get? Trump really isn't the concern. I am increasingly nervous that the way "we" are all reacting to situations like this may well lead to even worse outcomes.
Alpinestars said:
Where's Murph to provide some balance to all this unbalanced view.
You can't help yourself, can you Play me all you like. The more you do, the more you make my point for me.I don't care for Trump. I think the fundamental idea behind some of what he does is fine. The execution is poor. He's evidently ill prepared. Would HRC really have been better though? From her track record, she'd have been much better at oiling the wheels and politicking...but do we think she's really less self serving than Trump? IMO no. IMO she's worse as it gets dressed up and/or hidden behind smoke and mirrors. I do not believe the world would have been a safer place with her in position.
What is it about the previous politic that people were so disenchanted by? And what can be done to straighten it out? Poking fun at someone trying something different doesn't strike me as the most constructive approach. He's not all that is broken/ill equipped.
scherzkeks said:
jjlynn27 said:
Highly entertaining. Resident nutjobs; 'Y'know, this is actually good for Trump he played a blinder'. The bill that he was pushing, the same bill he was chasing people's votes for, now that even Reps are saying; 'Listen, it's a ste bill, O'care is better than this'. But local faithful see the bigger picture.
Comedy central.
Must be tough to be so wrong so often. Let me know when your Russian truther theory pans out. te bill, O'care is better than this'. But local faithful see the bigger picture. Comedy central.
I have no idea what 'Russian truther' theory you are on about. That aside, tell me about 9/11. what actually happened. I always enjoy that story.
Murph7355 said:
It oozes out of every post you make on this thread chaps. There is zero objectivity or balance. None whatsoever. And your tone towards those with a counter opinion is hardly constructive.
Your call of course. You are free to express whatever opinions you want in whatever way you want. But don't be surprised when mass decisions like have happened over the last year happen. And try not to be dismissive of them. Understanding the root of them is important. Congratulating those with identical viewpoints only has so much use
Nah, I reckon someone who thinks 9/11 was an inside job, believes pizzagate to the point of going their armed to the teeth and that moon landing was a hoax doesn't deserve any respect for their opinions. Your call of course. You are free to express whatever opinions you want in whatever way you want. But don't be surprised when mass decisions like have happened over the last year happen. And try not to be dismissive of them. Understanding the root of them is important. Congratulating those with identical viewpoints only has so much use
They're idiots and should be treated as such. If they want to lock themselves away in a fantasy land that's fine. But why should they be given any credence? Stop being so politically correct about these things, and stop protecting the snowflakes from reality.
scherzkeks said:
davepoth said:
scherzkeks said:
Healthcare bill was played well, IMO. No one wants Ryancare. Trump's ultimatum was a wise move, as he can wash his hands of the issue now. We should have gotten single payer; but it is of no concern to me. Healthcare in Germany is excellent.
Played well for Trump, not particularly great for the GOP or for the country though. He's only looking out for Trump. IMO It was an awful bill - fudged beyond belief with no clear direction or vision, but it's unsurprising that it's that bad since they tried to ram it through congress so quickly.
Down the road there may be a new opportunity, and in the meantime, all of the problems of Obamacare will persist, further tarnishing the Drone Ranger's legacy.
Wise choice. The sad part for us is that Trump is actually the last chance for decent health care. No establishment corporate crony from the Dems or Reps is going to step up (not that Trump necessarily will either). Single payer is a pipe dream.
Edited by zygalski on Saturday 25th March 04:24
A few years ago, there was a documentary on the 50 million or so without the ability to get the health care they needed in the US. There were popup clinics staffed by volunteers and they would be inundated. Don't know what the figures are now.
Don't [pretend to know how Obama care worked, but I got the impression from press and interviews that "if you ain't got the loot, not my look out" sort of mentality. It would seem that quite a few of the better off attitude does not include charity.
This is me looking in from the outside, not knowing what the real story is.
Don't [pretend to know how Obama care worked, but I got the impression from press and interviews that "if you ain't got the loot, not my look out" sort of mentality. It would seem that quite a few of the better off attitude does not include charity.
This is me looking in from the outside, not knowing what the real story is.
jmorgan said:
Don't [pretend to know how Obama care worked, but I got the impression from press and interviews that "if you ain't got the loot, not my look out" sort of mentality. It would seem that quite a few of the better off attitude does not include charity.
The American attitude is heavy on self sufficiency. You are supposed to get your own health insurance. Those that do don't appreciate freeloaders; the same as everyone else, everywhere. There are schemes for the old and the poor, Medicare and Medicaid respectively. Some - a small percentage but still millions of people - fall between the cracks - neither paid enough, poor enough, or old enough. Obamacare made Saint Obama sound nice, but really it did little to improve the situation and replacing it wasn't the worst idea on earth.
tl;dr:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
Murph7355 said:
You can't help yourself, can you Play me all you like. The more you do, the more you make my point for me.
I don't care for Trump. I think the fundamental idea behind some of what he does is fine. The execution is poor. He's evidently ill prepared. Would HRC really have been better though? From her track record, she'd have been much better at oiling the wheels and politicking...but do we think she's really less self serving than Trump? IMO no. IMO she's worse as it gets dressed up and/or hidden behind smoke and mirrors. I do not believe the world would have been a safer place with her in position.
What is it about the previous politic that people were so disenchanted by? And what can be done to straighten it out? Poking fun at someone trying something different doesn't strike me as the most constructive approach. He's not all that is broken/ill equipped.
It's all a bit of fun chap. Get over yourself. Play me all you like. The more you do, the more you make my point for me.I don't care for Trump. I think the fundamental idea behind some of what he does is fine. The execution is poor. He's evidently ill prepared. Would HRC really have been better though? From her track record, she'd have been much better at oiling the wheels and politicking...but do we think she's really less self serving than Trump? IMO no. IMO she's worse as it gets dressed up and/or hidden behind smoke and mirrors. I do not believe the world would have been a safer place with her in position.
What is it about the previous politic that people were so disenchanted by? And what can be done to straighten it out? Poking fun at someone trying something different doesn't strike me as the most constructive approach. He's not all that is broken/ill equipped.
boxxob said:
aware of what? is this another 'hitler's rise to power' comparison?
NoBUT, the rise it totalitarian regimes in Europe in the 1930s (there were quite a few of them - not just in Germany )was fundamentally caused by similar sentiments.
As I said, lessons can be learned from history.
grumbledoak said:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
Well, you could. But what could have been done better here? Still many without care, was Trumps plan any good and the GOP scuppered him? Some alt news commentary have the daggers out for the speaker, not Trump of course. Wonder who is driving that.Some alt reality also getting their knickers in a twist over a live bug on an interview and screaming "see, told you they lied".
Muppets.
grumbledoak said:
The American attitude is heavy on self sufficiency. You are supposed to get your own health insurance. Those that do don't appreciate freeloaders; the same as everyone else, everywhere. There are schemes for the old and the poor, Medicare and Medicaid respectively. Some - a small percentage but still millions of people - fall between the cracks - neither paid enough, poor enough, or old enough.
Obamacare made Saint Obama sound nice, but really it did little to improve the situation and replacing it wasn't the worst idea on earth.
tl;dr:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
He's pretty stupid, certainly from an EI perspective, but what's his race got to do with it?Obamacare made Saint Obama sound nice, but really it did little to improve the situation and replacing it wasn't the worst idea on earth.
tl;dr:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
grumbledoak said:
The American attitude is heavy on self sufficiency. You are supposed to get your own health insurance. Those that do don't appreciate freeloaders; the same as everyone else, everywhere. There are schemes for the old and the poor, Medicare and Medicaid respectively. Some - a small percentage but still millions of people - fall between the cracks - neither paid enough, poor enough, or old enough.
Obamacare made Saint Obama sound nice, but really it did little to improve the situation and replacing it wasn't the worst idea on earth.
tl;dr:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
The American system is deeply flawed, incredibly inefficient and highly inequitable. The ACA sought to address that but was scuppered in its execution by lobbying from big pharma and health insurance companies who basically own the system. Medicaid etc is a pathetic level of cover which is barely sufficient in a developed country. Trumps "reforms" would've made the system even more unfair. Happily it's been defeated and the first big policy he's tried to use his legendary negotiating skills and it's failed, in a massive humiliation. He's a lame duck president and not even 3 months into office.Obamacare made Saint Obama sound nice, but really it did little to improve the situation and replacing it wasn't the worst idea on earth.
tl;dr:
Trump has failed at something so we can all stop crying over the election and start gloating over the stupid white man's failure.
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