45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2

45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

Countdown

39,687 posts

195 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
Of course it's nonsense when it says Trump is nosediving laugh

Convenient that any NEGATIVE polls are fake news rofl



Edited by p1stonhead on Saturday 25th March 08:57
That's the stuff he spouted throughout his campaign. However, in the end, it turned out to be true.

There's a CNN clip of Fareed Zakaria which sums Trump up perfectly. He's bullstted his whole
Iife. He's won the Presidency by bullstting. It's impossible to tell him that bullstting doesn't work.

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Yipper said:
You don't have to be liked to be good.

The US and global economies are starting to soar now the dust has settled after Brexit and Trump. The lefties do not like it, and are desperate to deny it, but the world economy is seeing a "Trump bump" due to increased confidence. The global outlook for 2017 is actually very good.
Markets work on emotions rather than facts. There are expectations that Trumps presidency will encourage trade and improve profits etc. The proof will be in the pudding.

An effective presidency is about two things -

keeping the economy on a good footing
getting key legislation through Congress

So far, the signs are that there MIGHT be some success in the first area (although the optimism that drives this could evaporate very quickly)

The performance in the second area has been nothing short of calamitous - especially when linked to the claims he was making in his campaign speeches. He may learn how to work the system better. But Bannon is in the background more or less telling him he doesn't really need to work the system. What he actually needs to do is destroy it.

Which path will Trump take? Will he learn how to make Washington work for him - or just blow it up?

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Yipper said:
You don't have to be liked to be good.

The US and global economies are starting to soar now the dust has settled after Brexit and Trump. The lefties do not like it, and are desperate to deny it, but the world economy is seeing a "Trump bump". The global outlook for 2017 is actually very good.
I know, those damn lefties. And Trump is very very good. Magnificient, god-like, the bestest.

He can't push trough something that he campaigned for with control of House. It's Dems fault. It's Ryan's fault. It's someone else's fault. Even the people who voted for him are starting to see what a buffoon he is.

All economic difficulties in the UK are due to the Labour govt who haven't been in power for donkey's years. But the good economic outlook is down to Trump who has been in power for 60 days or so?

Countdown

39,687 posts

195 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Exactly

A generation ago probably a deal could have been reached with centrist Democrats to reform the system and ignore the more extreme Republicans who wont support any expansion of welfare. That is not possible anymore due to the extreme partisanship of American politics.

In a system where power is shared between three bodies if no side is willing to work with the other the result is grid lock. A post below said that the point of the democrats is to oppose, well no, the point of congress is to pass legislation that will benefit Americans not blindly oppose the other side in all things.
Obama had things much worse but to be fair he isn't the Great Dealmaker that Trump is......

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
XCP said:
I have a stay booked in Trump Las Vegas next month!!
Hoping for a dollar plummet?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Yipper said:
You don't have to be liked to be good.

The US and global economies are starting to soar now the dust has settled after Brexit and Trump. The lefties do not like it, and are desperate to deny it, but the world economy is seeing a "Trump bump" due to increased confidence. The global outlook for 2017 is actually very good.
Your trump,bump isn't a new phenomenon, most new presidents see a stock market increase.

Trumps is nothing notable or special at all.



It's largely driven by tweeting about tax breaks for corporations and banks. I can't really see how this will improve life for Americans wanting a redistribution of wealth or sorting out(liberal) elites.

Rising evidence that Trump is failing to deliver on many of his promises will undoubtedly reduce confidence.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Countdown said:
JagLover said:
Exactly

A generation ago probably a deal could have been reached with centrist Democrats to reform the system and ignore the more extreme Republicans who wont support any expansion of welfare. That is not possible anymore due to the extreme partisanship of American politics.

In a system where power is shared between three bodies if no side is willing to work with the other the result is grid lock. A post below said that the point of the democrats is to oppose, well no, the point of congress is to pass legislation that will benefit Americans not blindly oppose the other side in all things.
Obama had things much worse but to be fair he isn't the Great Dealmaker that Trump is......
The BEST deal maker. No one can do it like him.




In a way it's quite sad for him. He had it ALL. he was loved by those around him and surrounded by yes men who would walk over fire to please him.

He is now subject to ridicule every day by millions. I don't think he ever wanted this and probably didn't realise it would be the end of his cushty life. I mean who has a better life than a billionaire? Now he potentially has one of the worst.


Edited by p1stonhead on Saturday 25th March 09:57

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
He can't push trough something that he campaigned for with control of House. It's Dems fault. It's Ryan's fault. It's someone else's fault. Even the people who voted for him are starting to see what a buffoon he is.

All economic difficulties in the UK are due to the Labour govt who haven't been in power for donkey's years. But the good economic outlook is down to Trump who has been in power for 60 days or so?
hehe Quite right. It's classic pistonheads confirmation bias. Anything good is due to Brexit and trump, anything bad is a legacy of liberal elites and the EU or labour.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Mr Tracy said:
Trump blaming Democrats for not voting, no mention of the GOP who didn't support it.

That puts a trillion dollar hole in the tax reform policy now too.
Been a tad busy lately with keeping up with the goings on. The bill has failed, don't the GoP rule congress? How did it fail?

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
From the reports I'm seeing (granted our media) the issue he seems to have is that a chunk of Republicans want even heavier cuts, and some think he's going too far.

In trying to bridge that gap (one assumes that is what he and his advisers have done) he's left in a no win situation. And the Democrats won't support him "because Trump" (to use that phrase).

Looked at like that, he doesn't actually "have Congress" etc.

It seems to me that enough people think St Obama's system needs to be changed (they voted Trump in, and the Republicans in congress aren't saying "no change" is needed, they just can't agree the level of change), but getting any sort of agreement seems to be impossible.

Do we think a more erudite, experienced politician would be handling this any better in terms of outcome? I'm not convinced. Maybe he shouldn't have had it as foundation of his election and maybe a more seasoned politician wouldn't have? But then the electorate evidently want change.

It's a right old mess. And I'm not convinced Trump is solely to blame. But then thinking this labels one a Trump advocate, snowflake protector etc smile

The fundamental issues underpinning this sort of thing are fr more interesting than laughing at someone because we think they're stupid, have daft hair, too much fake tan or play too much golf smile
Who do you think is to blame and what evidence do you have that people voted Trump in because they wanted changes to Obamacare versus other reasons and policies?

Would someone else have handled this and his EO better? 100%. He has misjudged his powers and the view of his own party. Someone more erudite would absolutely have done a far better job. Particularly someone with more EI and ability to work with people.

Carl_Manchester

12,102 posts

261 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all

sorry, going to have to go against the grain on this one.

as i posted in January there was no way obamacare was going to be replaced.

trump knew this during the campaign and he knew it when he took office however, he commuted to the vote to win strong support from the extreme end of the republican party.

he is shrewd enough not to let his define his term, there are bigger fishes to fry.

trump and bannon could not give 50p about obamacare and neither can the majority of the american people.

if was simply done to tick a box, an election promise, nobody really wanted it apart from big business and their shills.

the administration can now move on to do more important things whilst the liberal media sqwark on like this was actually going to happen.




Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
The "balance" that was provided by the Trump supporters here was lost partly because they couldn't have a decent debate without getting all shouty and obscene, so were banned. Which is a shame because a couple of them were great comedic value.
People have been banned?

Countdown

39,687 posts

195 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
In a way it's quite sad for him. He had it ALL. he was loved by those around him and surrounded by yes men who would walk over fire to please him.

He is now subject to ridicule every day by millions. I don't think he ever wanted this and probably didn't realise it would be the end of his cushty life. I mean who has a better life than a billionaire? Now he potentially has one of the worst.
Sorry but I disagree. He's a narcissist. He is currently the most important/powerful individual in the world. He is still loved/worshipped/revered by his core support, (they still swallow his bu11 and think it's chocolate ice cream). He is literally in a self-induced onanistic heaven.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
968 said:
The American system is deeply flawed, incredibly inefficient and highly inequitable. The ACA sought to address that but was scuppered in its execution by lobbying from big pharma and health insurance companies who basically own the system. Medicaid etc is a pathetic level of cover which is barely sufficient in a developed country.
Freedom. The freedom to treat the worst off the worst.

Countdown

39,687 posts

195 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
968 said:
The American system is deeply flawed, incredibly inefficient and highly inequitable. The ACA sought to address that but was scuppered in its execution by lobbying from big pharma and health insurance companies who basically own the system. Medicaid etc is a pathetic level of cover which is barely sufficient in a developed country.
I am going to play devil's advocate here.....

The US seems to be built on a credo of self-suffciency, individualism. "They believe each individual’s life belongs to himself and he has an inalienable right to live it as he sees fit, to act on his own judgment, to keep and use the product of his effort, and to pursue the values of his choosing." Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....

If that's what they want, and they can live with the knowledge that friends/relatives/poor people die or end up being financially destitute because they can't afford decent healthcare who are we to argue otherwise? We are just trying to impose our liberal/socialist views on a different culture.

As a wise man once said "Their gaff, their rules...." wink

XCP

16,875 posts

227 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Halb said:
XCP said:
I have a stay booked in Trump Las Vegas next month!!
Hoping for a dollar plummet?
Luckily flights, hotels and car hire were paid for last summer. The rest we have to suck up. Such is life.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
Would someone else have handled this and his EO better? 100%. He has misjudged his powers and the view of his own party. Someone more erudite would absolutely have done a far better job. Particularly someone with more EI and ability to work with people.
I think it's becoming clear now that he isn't a dealmaker - he's just a bully. And for the first time people are standing up to him.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Carl_Manchester said:
sorry, going to have to go against the grain on this one.

as i posted in January there was no way obamacare was going to be replaced.

trump knew this during the campaign and he knew it when he took office however, he commuted to the vote to win strong support from the extreme end of the republican party.

he is shrewd enough not to let his define his term, there are bigger fishes to fry.

trump and bannon could not give 50p about obamacare and neither can the majority of the american people.

if was simply done to tick a box, an election promise, nobody really wanted it apart from big business and their shills.

the administration can now move on to do more important things whilst the liberal media sqwark on like this was actually going to happen.
Where does even start with a post like this? A lot of people give more than 50p about healthcare / Obamacare. You have Reps saying that the proposed replacement is st. But to religious, Trump knew in advance that bill won't pass.



Murph7355

37,648 posts

255 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
JagLover said:
...A post below said that the point of the democrats is to oppose, well no, the point of congress is to pass legislation that will benefit Americans not blindly oppose the other side in all things. ...
Exactly this. Politicians have forgotten who they're representing.

We are heading the same way too, I fear.


Alpinestars said:
Who do you think is to blame and what evidence do you have that people voted Trump in because they wanted changes to Obamacare versus other reasons and policies?
...
No evidence of course, other than enough people voted for him on his range of policies to get him into power. I wonder if anyone has done the studies with his voters on which policies were the most fundamental to their choice.

In the absence of anything else though, you have to assume people felt this policy wasn't abhorrent enough to make them NOT vote for him.

Alpinestars said:
...
Would someone else have handled this and his EO better? 100%. He has misjudged his powers and the view of his own party. Someone more erudite would absolutely have done a far better job. Particularly someone with more EI and ability to work with people.
I'm not disagreeing with the concept that "someone" may have been able to. On the face of it, it's hard to see that someone could have made a bigger hash of the immediate attempts (assuming that these aren't designed to highlight the issues with the way the system works....that does assume some strategic thought which is a bit of a stretch even for me, let alone the likes of you and Eric smile).

But who?

More importantly, who that the US electorate were given a choice of? And in the absence of this someone, what are the US electorate supposed to do? Why is there so little choice? That in and of itself cannot be laid at Trump's door - he's providing choice. Who else is trying to do something different?

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Saturday 25th March 2017
quotequote all
Carl_Manchester said:
sorry, going to have to go against the grain on this one.

as i posted in January there was no way obamacare was going to be replaced.

trump knew this during the campaign and he knew it when he took office however, he commuted to the vote to win strong support from the extreme end of the republican party.

he is shrewd enough not to let his define his term, there are bigger fishes to fry.

trump and bannon could not give 50p about obamacare and neither can the majority of the american people.

if was simply done to tick a box, an election promise, nobody really wanted it apart from big business and their shills.

the administration can now move on to do more important things whilst the liberal media sqwark on like this was actually going to happen.
Same with the Mozlems?

And if so, has Trump misled all his voters in that he never meant any of what he said and just said it to get into power? We're never far from a conspiracy theory.
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED