Does air pollution kill 40000 people a year in the UK?
Discussion
The problem for me is there is no rational debate on how bad diesel engines are - and if they are so bad, what proportion passenger cars contribute. There's little point in banning diesel cars, if it only helps by 0.0001% for example.
I have studied the scientific data quite carefully, (as it's a hot topic in our workshop), and can only find 1 paper that statistically proves a link between road (not diesel) pollution and lung cancer - and then only a change in risk of about 1% for a certain section of society. And while no-one want lung cancer, the idea that many thousands of people are dying in the UK due to diesel engines is not (yet) supportable.
I also understand that there is a pollution concern here, that is not defined by health issues, and a risk issue that well might be.
I get that diesel is not flavour of the month, but at least talk about scientifically proven fact before throwing out 20 years of technological improvement, and investment of 100's of millions of £.
And I also wonder, if we did 'ban' diesel engines, what the alternative would be - it might be that we increase reliance on another form of fuel that is equally or more dangerous, or indeed by removing diesel engines from daily life, there are other unforeseen consequences that are more damaging to various section of society.
Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
I have studied the scientific data quite carefully, (as it's a hot topic in our workshop), and can only find 1 paper that statistically proves a link between road (not diesel) pollution and lung cancer - and then only a change in risk of about 1% for a certain section of society. And while no-one want lung cancer, the idea that many thousands of people are dying in the UK due to diesel engines is not (yet) supportable.
I also understand that there is a pollution concern here, that is not defined by health issues, and a risk issue that well might be.
I get that diesel is not flavour of the month, but at least talk about scientifically proven fact before throwing out 20 years of technological improvement, and investment of 100's of millions of £.
And I also wonder, if we did 'ban' diesel engines, what the alternative would be - it might be that we increase reliance on another form of fuel that is equally or more dangerous, or indeed by removing diesel engines from daily life, there are other unforeseen consequences that are more damaging to various section of society.
Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
Some 800,000 people a year die. If you add up all the claimed reasons for premature deaths - diesel, alcohol, smoking, sugar, obesity, petrol, teenage sex, burgers, drugs, speeding and hospital acquired infections that number should be around 1.2 million.
But it isn't, so someone, somewhere hasn't got good data, Then add climate change and we all died a fortnight ago.
But it isn't, so someone, somewhere hasn't got good data, Then add climate change and we all died a fortnight ago.
There's always going to be people who don't believe in science or just what's plain obvious fact, like the people who campaigned against the smoking ban, unleaded fuel or the spinning jenny- there's really nowt you can do for them, they're just like that.
They will ban dirtier pre euro standard engines, but only when there's so few left on the road as it makes no difference.
They will ban dirtier pre euro standard engines, but only when there's so few left on the road as it makes no difference.
Willy Nilly said:
I like clean air an don't think we should pollute it, but I'm beginning to think we have been sold a pub on vehicle air pollution.
If 40,000 people are dying from relatively clean, modern engines, how many were dying at the height of the industrial revolution or in the 1950's smogs?
4,000If 40,000 people are dying from relatively clean, modern engines, how many were dying at the height of the industrial revolution or in the 1950's smogs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London
bearman68 said:
And I also wonder, if we did 'ban' diesel engines, what the alternative would be - it might be that we increase reliance on another form of fuel that is equally or more dangerous, or indeed by removing diesel engines from daily life, there are other unforeseen consequences that are more damaging to various section of society.
Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
I'd like to know why my four year old diesel Mundano only costs 30 notes a year for road fund license, which indicates it was an environmentally desirable/acceptable car at the time. How has it gone to being a hated murder vehicle in just four years???Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
King Herald said:
I'd like to know why my four year old diesel Mundano only costs 30 notes a year for road fund licence, which indicates it was an environmentally desirable/acceptable car at the time. How has it gone to being a hated murder vehicle in just four years???
A cynic would answer "Because it only costs £30/year.". 
King Herald said:
bearman68 said:
And I also wonder, if we did 'ban' diesel engines, what the alternative would be - it might be that we increase reliance on another form of fuel that is equally or more dangerous, or indeed by removing diesel engines from daily life, there are other unforeseen consequences that are more damaging to various section of society.
Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
I'd like to know why my four year old diesel Mundano only costs 30 notes a year for road fund license, which indicates it was an environmentally desirable/acceptable car at the time. How has it gone to being a hated murder vehicle in just four years???Just my thoughts from an engineer with 25 years experience, and whose wife has a doctorate in biochemistry.
It's like the SNP. When they are off the news for 3-4 days you JUST KNOW another pronouncement from Krazy Krankie is about to be thrown at us via that virtue of public broadcasting the BBC....
No, of course it doesn't. In the same way that 1 in 12 children don't live in poverty in the UK, cooking toast wrong doesn't kill you and hate crime (wtf is that?) is not "off the chart".
It worries me that I have otherwise seemingly intelligent and professional friends who swallow this crap up whole.
It worries me that I have otherwise seemingly intelligent and professional friends who swallow this crap up whole.
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