Environmentalists and libertarians unite in HS2 criticism

[robinessex]

Environmentalists and libertarians unite in HS2 criticism

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39023621

"Environmentalists Friends of the Earth joined the libertarian group Taxpayers' Alliance in a late bid to derail HS2.
The two groups are normally at odds on policy, but both agree that the rail project is a bad use of public money, and likely to over-run its budget.
The projected price for HS2 is £56bn, but the Taxpayers' Alliance speculates that the final cost could reach £90bn."

Rather put the £90Bn into the NHS

[Oakey]

I see where you're coming from but the NHS budget is about £120billion a year, another £90billion would just get swallowed into that black hole. At least with HS2 you still have some infrastructure to show for your £90billion!

I wonder how much £90billion would improve our roads?

[Type R Tom]

Oakey said:

I see where you're coming from but the NHS budget is about £120billion a year, another £90billion would just get swallowed into that black hole. At least with HS2 you still have some infrastructure to show for your £90billion!

I wonder how much £90billion would improve our roads?

Wouldn't work, you'd get the same NIMBY with any road expansion.

[Oakey]

Who said expansion? I just meant resurfacing, etc!

[Amateurish]

And yet the £45bn on Crossrail 1+2 is fine - London right?

[Digga]

Amateurish said:

And yet the £45bn on Crossrail 1+2 is fine - London right?

This. If 'they' weren't objecting to Crossrail, then they can STFU. The rest of the country needs infrastructure too. Bellends!

And, while we're at it, why should it be either or with roads and rail? Let's have some proper funding for that too and get the economy moving properly.

[Amateurish]

"A report by IPPR (Institute for Public Policy Research) North shows that the government will spend an average of £1,943 per person on transport in London, compared with an average of just £303 per person in English regions outside of London."

http://uk.businessinsider.com/london-gets-1500-mor...

[ralphrj]

Amateurish said:

"A report by IPPR (Institute for Public Policy Research) North shows that the government will spend an average of £1,943 per person on transport in London, compared with an average of just £303 per person in English regions outside of London."

http://uk.businessinsider.com/london-gets-1500-mor...

I would question some of the assumptions behind that report. They appear to have taken the total cost of every transport project and assumed that 100% of the money comes from the Government and ignored the privately funded element.

[Ian Geary]

I recall crossrail is being funded by a 1 or 2% levy on business rates across the capital. There may be a state contribution but a lot is private.

The transport figure needs some context: London is the most densely populated area of the Uk, and does generate a lot of GDP for the other bits. It's got large surban areas through which millions of commuters and a lot of freight has to move, as well as the m25 handling the busiest airport and a fair chunk of Dover bound traffic.

Having said that, I think public transport connections across the major northern conurbations would be more use than this phase of hs2.

I don't think they'll succeed though.. too much has been sunk into hs2 for the vested interests to just let it go.

I also read something about why we're still putting 19th century metal rails down when we could explore 21st century options, but that would add at least one nought to the cost.

Finally, I think the business case is such that the proposed investment will generate equivalent levels of economic growth. The sum shouldn't be thought of as a stack of cash burning a hole in someone's pocket.

Ian

[robinessex]

It's supposed economic benefits are pure fiction. And they've missed the fundamental point of transport, which is passenger density. Which turns out a speed of 40mph for this to happen! !!

[Rovinghawk]

Ian Geary said:

The transport figure needs some context: London is the most densely populated area of the Uk

So the figure for infrastructure could be lower per capita due to economy of scale.

[robinessex]

HS2 is go then!

[Digga]

robinessex said:

HS2 is go then!

<rolls sleeves up, spits on hands, picks up shovel>