Smart Meters ITV Tonight

[wc98]

BootsBruce said:

No you won't. Electricity companies are surprisingly good at detecting meter fraud. Even with conventional meters, very few people get away with it long term... And when conventional meters get phased out and replaced with mandatory smart meters in a few years time, bypass/fraud detection will be automatically detected.

really ? i think a large part of the push for smart meters is the huge level of fraud that goes on . there is a big problem with gas and electric . my answer would not be smart meters ,just do proper inspections .

a rental property just up the road from me had the meter removed due to the tenants non payment. the tenant had electricity for around a year afterwards until he moved out. they are good at detecting meter fraud,apparently not so good when there is no meter.

i happen to have a good friend that lives in the south east that used to work for one of the utility companies . he reckons that in certain areas of a particular demographic (he knows this as he is from that community) people that work for utilty companies have a nice sideline going round knocking off between 50 and 75% of gas usage every month for friends and family and similar scams exist for electricity.

it was a fair few years ago we had the conversation regarding this, so things may very well have changed.

up here i have heard the approach seems to be shop owners that have several fridges and freezers only having some of their supply metered ,or house owners with appliances/electrical equipment in the garage supplied from a non metered supply, far harder to detect than traditional meter fraud.

the same situation no doubt exists to a greater or lesser degree in all areas of the uk.

[footnote]

AyBee said:

footnote said:

It's like that but if you think of the petrol station as the electricity company, every time you pull in to refuel they will check the data on your trip meter and charge you a higher rate per litre for your 'fun' usage.

At the moment the petrol station don't know or care or have any power over what you do with your fuel or when you use it - not the same with electricity when smart meters are fully active and peak pricing is introduced.

Electricity companies already charge more for peak usage...

To whom?

Compulsorily to domestic users?

[Downward]

Meh it's February the heatings on and so far in February I've used £65.43 in gas and electric.

There will be no shock bill for me for February. In fact my direct debit is £73 a month so it should balance nicely for when spring comes and the heating is not on as much.

[eliot]

URL for the aforementioned ITV program:

http://www.itv.com/hub/tonight/1a9757a0066

[footnote]

Downward said:

Meh it's February the heatings on and so far in February I've used £65.43 in gas and electric.

There will be no shock bill for me for February. In fact my direct debit is £73 a month so it should balance nicely for when spring comes and the heating is not on as much.

Ha ha - it must be a great comfort to be looked after so well.

It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!

[djdest]

EON offer to fit one for us, they turned up and said we couldn't have one because there was no phone signal in the village and it wouldn't work without one.
So then we got a letter a few months later saying to call and book to get one fitted.
We rang and explained they had already tried to fit one, but as the village is a mobile black spot that it was pointless coming or again.
They insisted they would come and fit one, so I'm looking forward to them coming to try again soon

[djdest]

footnote said:

Ha ha - it must be a great comfort to be looked after so well.

It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!

That's from cookies based on your browsing, not them monitoring your internet

[V8Matthew]

AyBee said:

Nope - they can tell when you're using electricity but not for what purpose; if you use a lot overnight to charge your car and your current supplier increases the cost, change supplier, it's very simple. Right now, energy is cheapest at night because that's when people generally don't use it so you're not going to be paying any more just because you use it at night!

Until EVs start gaining in popularity and its made mandatory to sub-meter your charging point.

[TLandCruiser]

wc98 said:

BootsBruce said:

No you won't. Electricity companies are surprisingly good at detecting meter fraud. Even with conventional meters, very few people get away with it long term... And when conventional meters get phased out and replaced with mandatory smart meters in a few years time, bypass/fraud detection will be automatically detected.

really ? i think a large part of the push for smart meters is the huge level of fraud that goes on . there is a big problem with gas and electric . my answer would not be smart meters ,just do proper inspections .

a rental property just up the road from me had the meter removed due to the tenants non payment. the tenant had electricity for around a year afterwards until he moved out. they are good at detecting meter fraud,apparently not so good when there is no meter.

i happen to have a good friend that lives in the south east that used to work for one of the utility companies . he reckons that in certain areas of a particular demographic (he knows this as he is from that community) people that work for utilty companies have a nice sideline going round knocking off between 50 and 75% of gas usage every month for friends and family and similar scams exist for electricity.

it was a fair few years ago we had the conversation regarding this, so things may very well have changed.

up here i have heard the approach seems to be shop owners that have several fridges and freezers only having some of their supply metered ,or house owners with appliances/electrical equipment in the garage supplied from a non metered supply, far harder to detect than traditional meter fraud.

the same situation no doubt exists to a greater or lesser degree in all areas of the uk.

yep, we were removing our old substation and moving it for a new plant at my previous work and I asked the guy from Siemens who was taking the details of old meter what's their main method of catching people fiddling the electricity and he told me it was from snitches, mostly by family members when they have a falling out and want to get one over the other person.

[footnote]

djdest said:

footnote said:

Ha ha - it must be a great comfort to be looked after so well.

It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!

That's from cookies based on your browsing, not them monitoring your internet

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

[gruffalo]

footnote said:

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

If you are worried delete the cookies then, not difficult.

Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.

[footnote]

gruffalo said:

footnote said:

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

If you are worried delete the cookies then, not difficult.

Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.

I'm sure your life is so dull as to be meaningless to anyone else and nobody would want any information stored on your computer - I get it - I don't need your tin hat thanks. Why don't you just cc Theresa may in on all your emails or give her your passwords - if you have any - why would you need them after all?

I am surprised neither you nor the other lad understand what cookies are.

[footnote]

gruffalo said:

If you are worried delete the cookies then, not difficult.

Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.

Back on topic - are you responsible for your own utility bills and if so, do you have a smart meter?

Do you want one or not? Why?

[minimoog]

We've got a live one here.

[djdest]

footnote said:

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

Wow, just wow

[Order66]

Hosenbugler said:

I spent more than the odd year in energy distribution, and can assure all, that smart meters are buggar all about the consumer. They ARE all about forcing behaviour change, charging different rates for energy at differing times of day , and ultimately, the rationing of that energy.

Basically, what they have done is persue an energy policy wherein they have no control over when power will actually be generated , thus they need to be able control usage when the wind ain't blowing, its insane, avoid said "smart" meters at all costs.

This. I have also worked in the energy distribution world and directly on "smart" meters for 17yrs now (all US based). They are absolutely not for the benefit of the consumer. It will be dressed up as such, but this is about fine-grain control of the network. In my world in particular it is about removing the need to reinforce the network to add new services - if they can accurately monitor demand in real time and "turn it down" to prevent burn-outs this enables a huge cost-saving in infrastructure. It will lead to a "contention-ratio" style power delivery where the quality of supply will be reduced and/or the price you pay at peak times will increased based on demand (like uber).

[lost in espace]

So my last electricity bill was £500 for a quarter, standard meter. We have 1 hot tub and a Nissan Leaf, 4 adults, 2 kids. I do have one of those Current Cost meters but it was buried in a box somewhere when I saw smart meters being offered by E.ON for free, it seemed like a good idea. Install in March, all booked.

I am now thinking of cancelling. I think in a few years I might be better off having a standard meter, its a bit like water meters where you are a large user of water and would be worse off with a meter.

[footnote]

djdest said:

footnote said:

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

Wow, just wow

The tracking cookies, and especially third-party tracking cookies, are commonly used as ways to compile long-term records of individuals' browsing histories – a potential privacy concern that prompted European[2] and U.S. lawmakers to take action in 2011.[3][4] European law requires all websites targeting European Union member states gain "informed consent" from users before storing non-essential cookies on their device.

A zombie cookie is a cookie that is automatically recreated after being deleted. This is accomplished by storing the cookie's content in multiple locations, such as Flash Local shared object, HTML5 Web storage, and other client-side and even server-side locations. When the cookie's absence is detected, the cookie is recreated using the data stored in these locations.

[footnote]

djdest said:

footnote said:

Ha ha!

Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?

Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?

You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?

Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?

Credulousness taken to new levels.

Wow, just wow

So, now that we've clarified what cookies are, we can put that distraction aside and get back on topic.

Are you responsible for your own utility bills and if so, do you have anything to add on the smart meter question?

[footnote]

Order66 said:

Hosenbugler said:

I spent more than the odd year in energy distribution, and can assure all, that smart meters are buggar all about the consumer. They ARE all about forcing behaviour change, charging different rates for energy at differing times of day , and ultimately, the rationing of that energy.

Basically, what they have done is persue an energy policy wherein they have no control over when power will actually be generated , thus they need to be able control usage when the wind ain't blowing, its insane, avoid said "smart" meters at all costs.

This. I have also worked in the energy distribution world and directly on "smart" meters for 17yrs now (all US based). They are absolutely not for the benefit of the consumer. It will be dressed up as such, but this is about fine-grain control of the network. In my world in particular it is about removing the need to reinforce the network to add new services - if they can accurately monitor demand in real time and "turn it down" to prevent burn-outs this enables a huge cost-saving in infrastructure. It will lead to a "contention-ratio" style power delivery where the quality of supply will be reduced and/or the price you pay at peak times will increased based on demand (like uber).

Even the energy companies in their tv adverts can only come up with 'saving you the trouble of reading your own meter' as the key reason why you should contribute to the billions spent on smart meters.

If that's all they can come up with, God help us!

It's so obviously for their benefit, yet people/consumers seemingly can't perceive that fact. What's that about?