Smart Meters ITV Tonight

[.:ian:.]

BoRED S2upid said:

Jinx said:

Overly expensive - unsecured and provide limited to no benefits to the consumer (a simpler system that communicates via an app to your smart phone would have been better). I will fight against having one of these for as long as I can followed up by shielding the damn thing in a Faraday cage to stop it communicating.....

Could you just wrap it in tin foil?

You could also stick it up s3fellas arse, he seems willing,

[R8Steve]

Hosenbugler said:

R8Steve said:

Strange
Not sure if that was an actual concern but i'm struggling to see how a smart meter would tell anyone this. It could maybe tell them if you've left the tv on but that's about it.

They can already do far more than that, look up RFID chips for a start. I do recall around 3 years back there was a hubbub that all electrical domestic appliances should have an id chip in them, which could be interrogated and id'd via the network. I don't recall if it was implemented, but it would fit if so. Would assist in potential power rationing, assessing the power needs of a property.

Was that not part of the plot in Batman the dark knight rises?

I refuse to believe that someone is sitting somewhere trying to use smart meters or RFID chips to create a radar map of someone's home.

It doesn't really bother me if someone wants to interrogate my kettle via the network, if it did i would strongly consider getting myself sectioned.

[GlenMH]

The other reason for me not wanting one (apart from giving someone the remote ability to tell what TV channel I am watching) is that it opens the door for differential pricing:

Want a guaranteed 220V supply? Pay extra for it. Want power at peak times? Pay extra for it. All remotely controlled....

[Jazzy Jag]

I don't believe that a smart meter will avoid billing errors by power companies.
If anything it will make it worse.

Some minimum wage oil sat in a call center in Mumbai will be utterly convinced that he is right because it's on his computer and "computer says No!"

[R8Steve]

GlenMH said:

The other reason for me not wanting one (apart from giving someone the remote ability to tell what TV channel I am watching) is that it opens the door for differential pricing:

Want a guaranteed 220V supply? Pay extra for it. Want power at peak times? Pay extra for it. All remotely controlled....

What, exactly like economy 7 and other tariffs do at the moment with no smart meters installed?

[0000]

GlenMH said:

Why on earth you would give someone remote control of switching off your utilities...

I'd only heard these were monitoring usage. They've got remote control to switch off supply?

[louiebaby]

I haven't seen the documentary yet, but I will.

To add an opposing side to the argument, I think that smart meters and connected smart appliances are a good idea, (providing that security concerns are fully addressed.)

I look at the price of electricity in the peak periods, and how close we are getting to full capacity at these times. (It's expensive, and we often get very close.) Those peak periods are typically Nov-Feb, Mon-Fri, 4pm-7pm. (Excluding unscheduled outages.)

Now consider that it wouldn't necessarily take a lot to manage those loads. By educating consumers about how much they are currently consuming, they may be a little more keen to switch lights off in rooms they're not using, and only boil a kettle with the amount of water they need, not a full one. They can see, in real time, how much it's costing them, and they should think twice.

Now consider the connected appliances. How about a situation when the grid can turn everyone's fridge/freezer onto an energy saving mode when a spike is about to happen, and back to normal when it has passed? Chances are, it will make no difference to your life, or the contents of your fridge, but will keep the grid more balanced, and costs down overall.

Finally, as we all move to electric cars, over the next decade or so. When you get in from work, you plug your car in and "offer" the remaining power in the batteries to the grid. It is then bought from you when demand and prices are very high that evening, only for it to re-charge in the wee small hours when demand is low and prices are too.

Smart meters can potentially make all this happen. It sounds like tiny differences, but spread across the whole country, they can add up to huge differences.

I have intentionally pointed out some of the positives, and none of the negatives. This is not to troll, only to make sure some of these positives are shown in the thread. I welcome debate, but have no intention of starting arguments.

[Amused2death]

"Mummy, I'm hungry and it's teatime"

"Sorry my dear, it's too expensive to cook at the moment, you'll have to wait for a few hours"

They can stick their "smart" meter up their a*se!

[FN2TypeR]

miniman said:

So far I'm £30 up because they didn't turn up to install it.

same here

[Yipper]

Smart meters are, on the whole, a good idea. Computers will always be faster, more upgradable and more accurate than humans. The world is computerising and meters are no exception.

But there are downsides (as always). Smart meters will open the door for more complex pricing (to hide price rises), power companies will eventually start charging for the devices themselves (to make more money once you are locked in), while app developers, hackers, foreign agencies, power suppliers and domestic governments are using them to spy on and monitor homes and people (track whether you are in or out, listen to in-home conversations, etc.). There does need to be a strong framework for regulating smart meters.

[FN2TypeR]

GlenMH said:

The other reason for me not wanting one (apart from giving someone the remote ability to tell what TV channel I am watching) is that it opens the door for differential pricing:

Want a guaranteed 220V supply? Pay extra for it. Want power at peak times? Pay extra for it. All remotely controlled....

Unless the smart meters contain contactors that'll shut the juice off remotely denying you power as and when isn't going to happen.

Either way such things are easily by passed, you can get round anything with a bit of ingenuity providing you don't get too greedy - especially if these meters mean that the G4S noddy won't be visiting your home to actually look at the installation periodically as the meter readings are taken remotely.

[R8Steve]

Yipper said:

...while app developers, hackers, foreign agencies, power suppliers and domestic governments are using them to spy on and monitor homes and people (track whether you are in or out, listen to in-home conversations, etc.). There does need to be a strong framework for regulating smart meters.

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

[FN2TypeR]

R8Steve said:

Yipper said:

...while app developers, hackers, foreign agencies, power suppliers and domestic governments are using them to spy on and monitor homes and people (track whether you are in or out, listen to in-home conversations, etc.). There does need to be a strong framework for regulating smart meters.

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

The truth is out there!

[0000]

R8Steve said:

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

You don't? (I'm pretty certain they won't be listening in assuming they don't start getting fitted with microphones or speakers, but if you put them on the internet, they'll be fair game as an attack vector).

[Yipper]

R8Steve said:

Yipper said:

...while app developers, hackers, foreign agencies, power suppliers and domestic governments are using them to spy on and monitor homes and people (track whether you are in or out, listen to in-home conversations, etc.). There does need to be a strong framework for regulating smart meters.

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

Of course.

A simple taxi app that takes 1min to install on your smart-phone enables someone to immediately harvest all your photos, text messages, phone numbers, contacts, listen in live to your voice calls, and remote-activate the mic and camera when in sleep mode.

That same software and hardware tech is already being embedded in smart-meters. After all, they are just mobile computers stuck on your wall, instead of being stuck in your hand.

There is a reason why Ed Snowden fled for his life after grassing about all the above (see WikiLeaks Spy Files). There is a reason why Mark Zuckerberg tapes over his laptops' cameras and mics (see famous pics on the Web). And it's not because they like wearing tinfoil hats

[R8Steve]

0000 said:

R8Steve said:

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

You don't? (I'm pretty certain they won't be listening in assuming they don't start getting fitted with microphones or speakers, but if you put them on the internet, they'll be fair game as an attack vector).

No, i don't.

There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.

I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.

[Hosenbugler]

R8Steve said:

Hosenbugler said:

R8Steve said:

Strange
Not sure if that was an actual concern but i'm struggling to see how a smart meter would tell anyone this. It could maybe tell them if you've left the tv on but that's about it.

They can already do far more than that, look up RFID chips for a start. I do recall around 3 years back there was a hubbub that all electrical domestic appliances should have an id chip in them, which could be interrogated and id'd via the network. I don't recall if it was implemented, but it would fit if so. Would assist in potential power rationing, assessing the power needs of a property.

Was that not part of the plot in Batman the dark knight rises?

I refuse to believe that someone is sitting somewhere trying to use smart meters or RFID chips to create a radar map of someone's home.

It doesn't really bother me if someone wants to interrogate my kettle via the network, if it did i would strongly consider getting myself sectioned.

You can scoff as much as you like, but Smart meters, ARE about having control over consumers energy supply and usuage. A key bullet point in meter manufacturers product blurb is about "Behaviour change" meaning changing when consumers use their energy, via "dynamic pricing," meaning different prices, different times of day. The ultimate progression of this being usgage caps, which effectively is energy rationing.

Its what its all about. There is , or was, a very good Wikipeadia article concerning smart meters, very educational.

[0000]

R8Steve said:

No, i don't.

There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.

I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.

I'm sure you and many others are willing to take the risk. That doesn't mean they won't be exploiting them.

[Brigand]

R8Steve said:

0000 said:

R8Steve said:

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?

You don't? (I'm pretty certain they won't be listening in assuming they don't start getting fitted with microphones or speakers, but if you put them on the internet, they'll be fair game as an attack vector).

No, i don't.

There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.

I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.

There are no microphones fitted to the display device you have in your house, so they won't be "listening in" to your conversations. But for all the fears you have of that device, the simple way to negate all of them is to leave it unplugged and unused. (This of course won't negate the devices that actually monitor your usages attached to your incoming mains, but they're outside in boxes in many cases, so microphones would be useless. I haven't looked at them closely, but unless they were valves I can't see how they could be hacked to switch off supplies)

I had one fitted a few months ago, mainly for the gimmick factor of seeing what I was using, and hopefully getting a more accurate bill each month, but after a week or so I unplugged the snazzy display and put it away, as the gimmick was gone. I haven't looked at it since. My bills however have been what I expect them to be, and look forward to them coming down once the weather warms and the heating isn't being used.

[TLandCruiser]

how long will it take for people to be able to hack the smart meter to give false readings? or only register every 3KW instead of every 1kw etc