Smart Meters ITV Tonight
Discussion
IroningMan said:
Our water meter doesn't have a power supply, so couldn't be operated remotely.
Which lead me to think - what's the power consumption of a smart meter...?
I'm speculating, but of course the water meter could be powered and remotely accessible....water flow charges battery, simples, mini hydro. Which lead me to think - what's the power consumption of a smart meter...?
Hosenbugler said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
I'll be checking the water one as well, but that's a tiny unit so I'd be surprised if it has a valve in it.
:
From memory, I don't beleive that water companies can cut off a customer for non payment , so apparently what they do is restrict the supply so it takes all day to fill a bath, (as example) . So I would be amazed if that water meter has not got some form of remotely operated restrictor in it. Is the meter in the path,or on the mains supply after it enters the building?:
Edited by Hosenbugler on Wednesday 22 February 15:50
What supplier do those of you who already have smart meters use, or is it done by area not supplier?
I'm with E.on but they have no clue when they're rolling out these meters.
More importantly, I've got a great big ugly meter cupboard that I would like to remove and re-utilise the space. Does having a smart meter mean the old meters get completely removed?
I'm with E.on but they have no clue when they're rolling out these meters.
More importantly, I've got a great big ugly meter cupboard that I would like to remove and re-utilise the space. Does having a smart meter mean the old meters get completely removed?
louiebaby]ovinghawk][Many good points.../quote said:
I agree about there being people who don't get it, but with a smart meter display in your kitchen, it can be quite easy to see.
The mobility issue is also valid, but in some cases, having £20 handy for an emergency taxi because you've flattened your EV might work, or the ability to always leave 30 miles of range in the EV. Again, the smart meter will tell you in real time how much you're saving / earning from offering your car.
With respect to people not having the will to change, perhaps they "need" a few blackouts for them to realise the situation we find ourselves in. This is great for us to see where the UK's capacity is coming from in almost real time:
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Again, I state, I'm not a troll. I am not discounting some of the security concerns people have. (Although some do sound a bit far-fetched.) I just want to make sure that some of the ways that smart meters can be a good thing are also represented.)
i know you would rather discussion on this topic is non confrontational so i will try my best despite steam coming out my ears at the moment (if there is a renewable steam pipeline i could plug my ears into somewhere, i could just read posts from the agenda 21 brigade all day and power a small town The mobility issue is also valid, but in some cases, having £20 handy for an emergency taxi because you've flattened your EV might work, or the ability to always leave 30 miles of range in the EV. Again, the smart meter will tell you in real time how much you're saving / earning from offering your car.
With respect to people not having the will to change, perhaps they "need" a few blackouts for them to realise the situation we find ourselves in. This is great for us to see where the UK's capacity is coming from in almost real time:
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Again, I state, I'm not a troll. I am not discounting some of the security concerns people have. (Although some do sound a bit far-fetched.) I just want to make sure that some of the ways that smart meters can be a good thing are also represented.)
)regarding the "they" that might need some blackouts to change their habits./way of thinking . i am one of the "they" . the first serious blackouts we have due to under capacity arising from the utterly insane lack of investment by successive governments in energy security i will be burning my local mp's fence in my log burner for heat . the longer the blackout lasts the less of his property will be left as i will move onto doors, windows etc as the wood runs out.
as far as i am concerned the clowns that led us down this path all need jailing at the least . just who the flying f
k does any other individual think they are to tell me what type of vehicle i will drive, when i will drive it, how i will use energy etc. i really cannot believe there are so many soft idiots that buy into this garbage and are willing to hand over control of a large paret of their every day lives to someone else that purports to "know better" or know what is best for them. i used to laugh at that line "we are from the government, we are here to help you" ,it certainly isn't a laughing matter now.if anyone ever wondered why the co2 catastrophic global warming scam was being pushed we only need to look at this sort of crap that is being rolled out now. the only saving grace is the fact that despite the western developed world going a bit soft this kind of crap is the exact sort of thing that could lead to proper revolt and a serious change of direction .
we have plenty oil and gas on this planet. use what there is to keep the world functioning while reliable new technologies are developed. build more nuclear power stations with safety as the main criteria, not cost. scrap the current investment in renewable that do not work reliably for the majority of those living in the developed northern latitudes and keep them where they can actually be of some use.
ps, i did struggle a little on the non confrontational bit but i did my best. i don't fancy a ban if i wrote what i really feel about this issue.
R8Steve said:
footnote said:
R8Steve said:
CrutyRammers said:
R8Steve said:
No, i don't.
There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
Your laughter is born of ignorance. The two biggest ddos attacks in history happened just recently, and we're mostly done using compromised home devices; cctv cameras, smart lightbulbs etc. Many of the current crop of "smart" devices have appallingly lax security and give attackers easy access to your WiFi and from there, anything connected to it. The tablet you do your banking on and all that stuff. Anything connected to the Internet and your home network is an attack vector, and the more things and connections there are, the more ways in there are.There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
I, on the other hand, have many secrets and intend to keep them so.
Although I know you wouldn't mind if they got you, so you're alright.
I can laugh about the surveillance but the cost and the pointlessness is a poor joke at your expense as well as mine.
margerison said:
I'm with E.on but they have no clue when they're rolling out these meters.
More importantly, I've got a great big ugly meter cupboard that I would like to remove and re-utilise the space. Does having a smart meter mean the old meters get completely removed?
I swapped to EON last year and they've been pestering me to have one fitted, but because my current meter is tucked away behind some brand new kitchen cupboards, I politely declined! They won't start refurbishing on your behalf. You'd have to take down your old cupboard and put the new one up, but I am sure if you rang EON and asked for one, they would put you on the list.More importantly, I've got a great big ugly meter cupboard that I would like to remove and re-utilise the space. Does having a smart meter mean the old meters get completely removed?
Swervin_Mervin said:
Hosenbugler said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
I'll be checking the water one as well, but that's a tiny unit so I'd be surprised if it has a valve in it.
:
From memory, I don't beleive that water companies can cut off a customer for non payment , so apparently what they do is restrict the supply so it takes all day to fill a bath, (as example) . So I would be amazed if that water meter has not got some form of remotely operated restrictor in it. Is the meter in the path,or on the mains supply after it enters the building?:
Edited by Hosenbugler on Wednesday 22 February 15:50
R8Steve said:
0000 said:
R8Steve said:
Do you actually believe this?
You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?
You don't? (I'm pretty certain they won't be listening in assuming they don't start getting fitted with microphones or speakers, but if you put them on the internet, they'll be fair game as an attack vector).You believe that an electricity smart meter will be used by foreign agencies or anyone else for that matter to track when you are in or out and listen to your in-home conversations?
There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
Hosenbugler said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
Hosenbugler said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
I'll be checking the water one as well, but that's a tiny unit so I'd be surprised if it has a valve in it.
:
From memory, I don't beleive that water companies can cut off a customer for non payment , so apparently what they do is restrict the supply so it takes all day to fill a bath, (as example) . So I would be amazed if that water meter has not got some form of remotely operated restrictor in it. Is the meter in the path,or on the mains supply after it enters the building?:
Edited by Hosenbugler on Wednesday 22 February 15:50
Will Morris, Head of Retail at SSE says it best:
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
R8Steve said:
Not really, i have an adequate firewall on my home network so i don't need to worry about my toaster trying to steal my bank details or my tv knowing what i had for dinner.
I believe that everyone who ever got hacked believed they had adequate security or weren't worth attacking. I hope you never find out otherwise.footnote said:
Will Morris, Head of Retail at SSE says it best:
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
Rich guy says not needed - not really a surprise ?"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
I would have thought it would be more applicable to those who actively try to manage their bills.
R8Steve said:
Not really, i have an adequate firewall on my home network so i don't need to worry about my toaster trying to steal my bank details or my tv knowing what i had for dinner.
That doesn't make much sense. You don't trust your toaster/TV/etc but you connect them to your network behind a firewall you then pray is sufficient to prevent them doing something nefarious?BigLion said:
footnote said:
Will Morris, Head of Retail at SSE says it best:
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
Rich guy says not needed - not really a surprise ?"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
I would have thought it would be more applicable to those who actively try to manage their bills.
Rich guy who runs electricity company wishes they hadn't become involved in hugely expensive and wrongheaded scam and resulting PR disaster is my interpretation.
Megaflow said:
I still can't believe some people think that the Government and energy companies are rolling out smart meters to save the consumer money...
The roll out is going to cost a lot of money, IIRC something like £2b. There is only one group of people that is going to pick up the bill for that in the future. That is the consumers.
I won't be having one until it is a legal requirement.
Totally agree. I got a letter in from my energy supplier wanting me to contact them to make an appointment to get a smart meter fitted. Letter suitably ignored! I'm not taking time off work to get this done, and I don't see the point of the smart meter.The roll out is going to cost a lot of money, IIRC something like £2b. There is only one group of people that is going to pick up the bill for that in the future. That is the consumers.
I won't be having one until it is a legal requirement.
I can't see myself altering my energy use by looking at an electronic display to see what I am spending on an hourly or daily basis. I've never had a billing error in years and it isn't exactly a hardship to enter a meter reading online each month to avoid an estimated bill.
louiebaby said:
Thanks for your points, and for making them in a non-confrontational manner.
My suggestions are based around two points: Tiny, incremental changes one a countrywide level being beneficial, and Grid Balancing/Demand Management.
The fridge thing is about tiny differences. If the thermostat switches the cooling on above -5 Celsius, and off at -8 Celsius, being able to change that remotely to reduce grid demand to -3 and -6, for instance, could really help grid demand without my fish-fingers defrosting. Similarly, if an office is set to maintain temperature by heating or A/C between 16 and 18 Celsius, having it remotely relaxed to 15 and 19 could also ease grid demand when needed, and the few people left in work between 4pm and 7pm would likely know little difference.
I'm certainly not advocating remote switching off of stuff like computers, TVs or ovens. What I'm saying is that by managing the grid better we can avoid rolling blackouts etc.
The use of battery technology as storage to further smooth out demand is coming along too. By using the battery of your EV as part of the solution is just a smart way to increase the battery capacity available. If you wanted to use it in the evening, you could just not plug it in, or plug it in and not offer the electricity it has.
Solar is a great resource, but not Nov-Feb, 4pm - 7pm. These storage solutions can help to smooth out supply and demand. We do still need increased baseload, that works through the night, and Hinckley C will really help this, when it is completed. Increased baseload combined with stored oversupply of renewable will all help balance the grid, so there is always enough power available.
But all those thing to help manage energy usage are already available, we don't need smart meters to do that stuff. Smart meters are being pushed/forced on us to (eventually) remove the control from us to the energy companies. At some point you'll go to turn a light on and it won't work, because something, somewhere says no.My suggestions are based around two points: Tiny, incremental changes one a countrywide level being beneficial, and Grid Balancing/Demand Management.
The fridge thing is about tiny differences. If the thermostat switches the cooling on above -5 Celsius, and off at -8 Celsius, being able to change that remotely to reduce grid demand to -3 and -6, for instance, could really help grid demand without my fish-fingers defrosting. Similarly, if an office is set to maintain temperature by heating or A/C between 16 and 18 Celsius, having it remotely relaxed to 15 and 19 could also ease grid demand when needed, and the few people left in work between 4pm and 7pm would likely know little difference.
I'm certainly not advocating remote switching off of stuff like computers, TVs or ovens. What I'm saying is that by managing the grid better we can avoid rolling blackouts etc.
The use of battery technology as storage to further smooth out demand is coming along too. By using the battery of your EV as part of the solution is just a smart way to increase the battery capacity available. If you wanted to use it in the evening, you could just not plug it in, or plug it in and not offer the electricity it has.
Solar is a great resource, but not Nov-Feb, 4pm - 7pm. These storage solutions can help to smooth out supply and demand. We do still need increased baseload, that works through the night, and Hinckley C will really help this, when it is completed. Increased baseload combined with stored oversupply of renewable will all help balance the grid, so there is always enough power available.
The point about the EV cars is you're suggesting a cheap off peak period could be used to recharge the vehicle. The point is this won't be an off peak period anymore, because every man and his dog will also be charging their car.
So, you'll pay to charge your car in a peak period, then the next evening plug your car in to use the remainder of the electricity it holds, then pay in a peak period again to recharge it. Forgive me, but somehow this doesn't sound the wonderful solution that was suggested.
One way around the peak period with recharging is to stagger usage, so instead of 2 million cars all on charge 1 million get charged (say) 9-12 and the other million 12-3am. It just gets complicated fast.
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