Another Taser disaster.

[carinaman]

XCP said:

Looks more like a baton to me.

[anonymous-user]

carinaman said:

If you Taser 'dot' someone in the eye will their eyesight be damaged?

If an officer Taser 'dots' a person in the eye and they don't react it could indicate they're blind?


'I am taser dotting you in the eye for your comfort and mine'?

Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 1st March 21:09

I think you're missing the bit where they now taser people in the face when they think it might be someone they want.

[XCP]

carinaman said:

XCP said:

Looks more like a baton to me.

Different photo?

[brenflys777]

Rovinghawk said:

brenflys777 said:

Do you accept that a man seen at night

Genuine question- was it dark or well lit as stations so often are?

From the article - the only information I have it was dark. I grew up nearby and suspect it was probably raining too... He said: "Two witnesses, as well as our firearms officers, believed the man was acting in an agitated manner and in the dark, the folded cane appeared to be a gun.

"An officer decided that in the circumstances, and to ensure the safety of the man and public, he should deploy a Taser."

Rovinghawk said:

brenflys777 said:

who does not comply with armed officers

Is non-compliance justification for firing tasers?

I don't know what their procedures are, but I certainly hope so. If you suspect the person has a weapon and you are asking them to put it down, then it seems fair to use force to make that happen.

Rovinghawk said:

brenflys777 said:

who've attended because of public concerns about his behaviour

They should rely on what they see, not rumours.

Information from witnesses isn't a rumour. The witnesses may be mistaken, they may not be credible but if they relay what they believe they have seen - its not a rumour! Only an idiot would ignore a potential source of intelligence IMO.

Rovinghawk said:

brenflys777 said:

who is holding an object which might be a gun represents a genuine threat?

I was always taught to identify a threat before firing- one may not fire because something might possibly be dodgy.

Where did you do your taser training? Hunting? Sports shooting? Military? Laser Quest?

They did think they had identified a threat - they mistakenly thought the folding cane was a gun - the mistake in identification may be incompetence or it could be a result of the circumstances, the lighting, the movements of the suspect etc. Thankfully they used a taser and the suspect wasn't shot.

Rovinghawk said:

brenflys777 said:

If not - is it because with hindsight it wasn't a gun? Or is it because he was blind?

Did they see a gun? No- because there wasn't one. Did they think they saw a gun? Or did they just rely on 'reports'?

How many times will it be acceptable for police to taser blind people before they 'learn lessons' that they should identify a target before firing? This 'honest belief' is an over-used cliche to cover inappropriate action.

I think you've answered my point, they say they saw a gun, with hindsight that was a mistake, I think its a reasonable expectation for Police to act on what they see at the time, you rate their behaviour based on information available later.

[carinaman]

XCP said:

Different photo?

If you google image search it it returns Daily Express website:



In that photo the officer is holding a baton and something else that may be a knife?


Using gather information and intelligence from the National Decision Making Model the officers, and to an extent the two members of the public that witnessed the blind man getting tasered, could have thought 'Why is the man behaving in an agitated manner?'

Do people generally behave in an agitated manner for no reason? Is such behaviour usually a reaction to something?

[Cold]

A new two-shot Taser capable of causing more pain to suspects has been authorised for use by police forces in England and Wales.

"That bloke in the wheelchair has got glock shaped like a newspaper"
"Get 'im, John"
Click, zap, gnnnggg...
"Oh my God, he's still threatening you with his empty Starbucks cup, shoot 'im again"
Zap, gnnnerrrggg...











"Oh yes, taser taser taser"

[anonymous-user]

XCP said:

carinaman said:

XCP said:

Looks more like a baton to me.

Different photo?

Changed your mind on this yet?

[XCP]

carinaman said:

Senior Police Federation official had the integrity to appear on BBC radio interview on the matter after he tweeted asking why a blind man being tasered was news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g2tnz

Acting in an agitated manner is sufficient cause to justify being tasered?





Is an open knife more of a threat than a folded blind man's stick?

Is a sighted person more of a threat than a blind person?

This was the photo/post I was commenting on. Not the later photo, which clearly shows a knife.

[PH XKR]

I find the thread resurrection rather shocking to be honest.

[anonymous-user]

PH XKR said:

I find the thread resurrection rather shocking to be honest.

You're easily shocked.

[XCP]

And no, I haven't changed my mind. It's still a different photo to the one I was commenting about.

[anonymous-user]

XCP said:

And no, I haven't changed my mind. It's still a different photo to the one I was commenting about.

I see. I thought you may have also seen the video from which the stills were taken. We find our hero using various weapons to try and gain access to the vehicle.

I suppose if you don't look at the full picture it's quite easy to make a mistake.

[XCP]

And easy to post the wrong photo to illustrate ones point it seems. There is no knife visible in Carinamans first still. And no, I haven't viewed the video.

[anonymous-user]

XCP said:

And easy to post the wrong photo to illustrate ones point it seems. There is no knife visible in Carinamans first still. And no, I haven't viewed the video.

It's odd you haven't watched the video and yet have contributed to the discussion about it. (Many times in the other thread).

Stick to basket weaving

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 06:46

[XCP]

bmw535i said:

It's odd you haven't watched the video and yet have contributed to the discussion about it. (Many times in the other thread).

Stick to basket weaving

Edited by bmw535i on Friday 17th March 06:46

I don't need to watch the video to make general points. Which is what I have done.

Basket weaving? Is that some kind of insult?

[anonymous-user]

XCP said:

I don't need to watch the video to make general points. Which is what I have done.

Basket weaving? Is that some kind of insult?

Well I suppose you're right if you consider questioning whether a knife was used and it was a baton instead as a general point.

[SystemParanoia]

bmw535i said:

XCP said:

I don't need to watch the video to make general points. Which is what I have done.

Basket weaving? Is that some kind of insult?

Well I suppose you're right if you consider questioning whether a knife was used and it was a baton instead as a general point.

the knife was used after the baton to cut the screen to steal the key.

also the tip of the blade was repeated thrust towards the victim whilst cutting the screen. clearly an aggressive and violent act meant to threaten and instil fear

[XCP]

bmw535i said:

Well I suppose you're right if you consider questioning whether a knife was used and it was a baton instead as a general point.

I didn't. I merely pointed out that the still showed a baton, not a knife. Carinaman then posted another still showing the knife. Don't try and put words into my mouth.

[anonymous-user]

XCP said:

I didn't. I merely pointed out that the still showed a baton, not a knife. Carinaman then posted another still showing the knife. Don't try and put words into my mouth.

Perhaps you should just view the video - it might help you form more valid opinions. Perhaps you think it's acceptable to hack away at peoples windscreens with a knife, but most rational people would think it's an unneccessary action. The CPS appear to believe it was.

[XCP]

bmw535i said:

XCP said:

I didn't. I merely pointed out that the still showed a baton, not a knife. Carinaman then posted another still showing the knife. Don't try and put words into my mouth.

Perhaps you should just view the video - it might help you form more valid opinions. Perhaps you think it's acceptable to hack away at peoples windscreens with a knife, but most rational people would think it's an unneccessary action. The CPS appear to believe it was.

Again you seem to be labelling me with opinions I do not hold. Nowhere have I claimed that what happened was acceptable or even hinted that I think this.
I would not be at all surprised if the court found that this behaviour was not justified. They however will have access to all the evidence which, clearly, we do not.
For some reason you seem determined to make an argument out of nothing with regard to this point, and I don't know why.