Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

[Pan Pan Pan]

More people die, and billions of pounds of taxpayers cash more are spent by the NHS on people who have self inflicted respiratory diseases caused by smoking, but they don't seem quite so keen to stop people buying cigarettes.. as they do about stopping people from buying diesels.
Funny that?

[Northern Munkee]

Pan Pan Pan said:

More people die, and billions of pounds of taxpayers cash more are spent by the NHS on people who have self inflicted respiratory diseases caused by smoking, but they don't seem quite so keen to stop people buying cigarettes.. as they do about stopping people from buying diesels.
Funny that?

To be fair cigarettes are penalised with massive tax compared to cost of production, which is pretty much the fear (taxation) increasing with diesels now to penalising levels. And I say that as a life long non smoker and as a driver 11yr old diesel Audi, 150k which I'm going to keep driving until I figure out what the car paradigm is... petrol, hybrid, petrol/hybrid, hydrogen fuel cell, self driving electric... I think I can get another 100k out of it, 3-5yrs.

[Boring_Chris]

My daily is a diesel and I quite like it.

Am I the antichrist now?

Am I going to be taxed to hell?

Edit. more importantly, is my diesel (which I quite like) going to be worth less than fk all soon?

[Lance Catamaran]

Now this is The Mail so I will take it with a very large pinch of salt, but it mentions a daily charge of up to £20 to enter 35 cities

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4374204/...

That would absolutely gut the market, but if I didn't plan to go to said locations it could mean plenty of bargains around

[AmitG]

Puggit said:

In a car dealership yesterday, and they flat out told us not to buy a diesel (we weren't anyway!).

Worried as I drive a 6 year old diesel.

Just out of interest - which brand?

[Otispunkmeyer]

This all seems very knee jerky and ill thought out IMO.

[Lance Catamaran]

Otispunkmeyer said:

This all seems very knee jerky and ill thought out IMO.

Just like the previous CO2 based taxation then

[King Herald]

So, when are they going to shut down the 200,000 artics and numerous other types of truck that keep this country moving? And the diesel electric trains?

And ships. Name me one cargo or passenger ship, oil tanker, ferry or fishing trawler that does not have a diesel engine? Will they be penalised and force to fit huge petrol engines?


This could be a revolution in in years to come, nutters building 'specials', with 500 litre v 16 maritime motors....

[MrBrightSi]

Pan Pan Pan said:

More people die, and billions of pounds of taxpayers cash more are spent by the NHS on people who have self inflicted respiratory diseases caused by smoking, but they don't seem quite so keen to stop people buying cigarettes.. as they do about stopping people from buying diesels.
Funny that?

Haven't you seen the latest change to rolling tobacco? Now you'll only find a pack in 30g+, for all those young-en's with little money or people who live on a shoe string but still manage a pack of 8/12g will now have be forced to chose a bulk purchase of baccy or the weeks food. You can harp on about taxes on cigarettes all you like, but it's the freedom to chose what horrible addiction you want in your life.

I wish they'd tax people who have kids while being kids rather than reward them, but oh well.

[richie99]

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

[King Herald]

richie99 said:

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

It is pressure from car manufacturers that cause this. Always has been, always will be. A simple survey on 'total life emissions' will show how non-environmentally beneficial it is to build, run and scrap a car every ten years.

Despite all the green bks we hear, we still life in a throwaway and extremely wasteful world, because that is what big business likes and wants.

[mondeoman]

King Herald said:

richie99 said:

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

It is pressure from car manufacturers that cause this. Always has been, always will be. A simple survey on 'total life emissions' will show how non-environmentally beneficial it is to build, run and scrap a car every ten years.

Despite all the green bks we hear, we still life in a throwaway and extremely wasteful world, because that is what big business likes and wants.

What a crock of st.

[V8 Fettler]

King Herald said:

It is pressure from car manufacturers that cause this. Always has been, always will be. A simple survey on 'total life emissions' will show how non-environmentally beneficial it is to build, run and scrap a car every ten years.

Despite all the green bks we hear, we still life in a throwaway and extremely wasteful world, because that is what big business likes and wants.

Who will measure this? Clearly can't trust the manufacturer's figures.

[King Herald]

mondeoman said:

What a crock of st.

Are you five? You sound like it.

[MarshPhantom]

richie99 said:

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

The U-LEZ was good old Boris's idea.

[MarshPhantom]

Even if we are all dying of diesel poisoning, it has at least shut the environmentalists up.

[richie99]

MarshPhantom said:

richie99 said:

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

The U-LEZ was good old Boris's idea.

Excellent plan then. Make the poor walk.

As far as I remember every test of my 2002 petrol car has shown NOx emissions of 0.00%.

[Otispunkmeyer]

King Herald said:

So, when are they going to shut down the 200,000 artics and numerous other types of truck that keep this country moving? And the diesel electric trains?

And ships. Name me one cargo or passenger ship, oil tanker, ferry or fishing trawler that does not have a diesel engine? Will they be penalised and force to fit huge petrol engines?


This could be a revolution in in years to come, nutters building 'specials', with 500 litre v 16 maritime motors....

heres 10 for a start (some not built yet):

http://www.marineinsight.com/tech/10-noteworthy-ln...

Marine is taking a good look at this now. Natural Gas is a credible alternative for the big stuff (where EV technology just won't work). Place like Germany and Italy are well into using CNG for smaller vehicles and there are projects increasing LNG options as LNG tanks enable the long haul HGVs to go further between fills. Gas is quite good as its got much better knock resistance than petrol. You can bung it in a 18:1 compression engine and it'll be fine if ignited with a little diesel. Dedicated gas engines have lower compression (thus lower efficiency) but I think this is more to do with spark plugs and heat-wicking that auto-ignition from compression.

The main point is they can make the required power, the fuel economy is worse (less efficient due to lower compression), but the fuel is much cheaper than normal liquid fuels, the tech exists to enable the range and the emissions are drastically reduced (PM, NOx, CO2). Dedicated engines have no methane slip, in the dual fuel engines this is more of an issue (and depends what way round you inject gas/diesel).

So yeah... gas engines. Road maps put EU market share for gas powered HGVs at 6% by 2030. They don't solve the problem, but are at least reducing it. No doubt there will be some law of unintended consequences mind!

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th April 12:52

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th April 12:59

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th April 13:02

[Otispunkmeyer]

richie99 said:

MarshPhantom said:

richie99 said:

I see from the London Mayor's plan that he plans to include PETROL and diesel cars prior to 2006. So it's nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with getting older cars off the road. Great stuff! Get the poor off the roads. Who'd have thought it from a Labour mayor?

The U-LEZ was good old Boris's idea.

Excellent plan then. Make the poor walk.

As far as I remember every test of my 2002 petrol car has shown NOx emissions of 0.00%.

In and MOT test yes.

In reality its putting out NOx because you can't operate an engine at stoichometric all the time (granted with closed loop control it should be majority of the time) and there is no set of conditions whereby the three way cat is doing all 3 of its jobs at maximum efficiency.

[Puggit]

AmitG said:

Puggit said:

In a car dealership yesterday, and they flat out told us not to buy a diesel (we weren't anyway!).

Worried as I drive a 6 year old diesel.

Just out of interest - which brand?

Dealer was Mini