Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel
Discussion
davepoth said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I thought diesels were pretty clean now what with more efficient injection systems and DPF filters?
Is air quality really getting worse or are they just lowering the limits?
I remember when trucks started fitting cab roof level exhaust pipes and my Dad thought it was great...no more driving in thick black smoke.
They "cheated". DPFs don't get rid of the soot, they just hold it until the car is driven on a motorway when they "regenerate" and throw a week's worth of town driving out of the back in one go. They also don't catch the smaller particles, or do anything about NOx emissions. Is air quality really getting worse or are they just lowering the limits?
I remember when trucks started fitting cab roof level exhaust pipes and my Dad thought it was great...no more driving in thick black smoke.
Btw when they regenerate filters it's not just throwing it all out the back. They supposed to be oxidising it (which releases CO2). If you see black smoke then the filter probably has a hole in it. You're right though, they don't capture all particles, but can be 99% on filtration once a filters got a cake layer built up inside (and some ash buildup).
You have to laugh at the fake stance of this story.
When you read what Grayling said in totality, it was nothing like the selective quotes are suggesting was a dire warning about diesel, he was just saying what any politician would be saying in the face of an eco-loon PC campaign against diesel, grey sludge vaguely supporting it, but not really.
It's like if he was commenting on eating 10 fruit/veg a day, saying general stuff like, yes it's nice to try and do it if you can, and the BBC reports 'Grayling says red meat is lethal'.
What a load of tosh.
It's interesting how on these threads people just post brainless factoids and misinformation about private car diesel pollution (or rather the lack of), never having checked for themselves, just repeating the extremist dogma, and not realising petrol increasingly has exactly the same problems and worse on some carcinogen vapour/particles, and that once diesel is done in, they'll be back for the petrol with a new scare and more scary 'research' and more 'premature deaths'.
When you read what Grayling said in totality, it was nothing like the selective quotes are suggesting was a dire warning about diesel, he was just saying what any politician would be saying in the face of an eco-loon PC campaign against diesel, grey sludge vaguely supporting it, but not really.
It's like if he was commenting on eating 10 fruit/veg a day, saying general stuff like, yes it's nice to try and do it if you can, and the BBC reports 'Grayling says red meat is lethal'.
What a load of tosh.
It's interesting how on these threads people just post brainless factoids and misinformation about private car diesel pollution (or rather the lack of), never having checked for themselves, just repeating the extremist dogma, and not realising petrol increasingly has exactly the same problems and worse on some carcinogen vapour/particles, and that once diesel is done in, they'll be back for the petrol with a new scare and more scary 'research' and more 'premature deaths'.
andy43 said:
The EU caved in to lobbying from the German manufacturers and here we are.
Japan moved towards EV and hybrid research and better petrol engines while we were forced to accept ever cleverer diesels through taxing CO2 emissions.
We have a diesel VW with wheelchair ramp through motability. It's f ing awful - if they sold a petrol version we would have 'rented' that.
Hateful things, we can move away from diesels easily enough now, but the problem is on the used market - there's very little petrol powered choice because of the way the EU skewed the market. It'll be the lower end of the market that bears the brunt, the buyers who are stuck with knackered old diesels not through choice but because of a limited budget. Which mr mayor wants to reduce still further through extra taxation.
Yes interesting to see what the US and the Japanese were doing whilst we were digging deep on diesel. In the US they never had a good rep in passenger cars anyway thanks to earlier attempts to sell European diesels there. But they never could meet the USs more stringent emissions standards for a long time. Plus gas was so cheap it hardly mattered.Japan moved towards EV and hybrid research and better petrol engines while we were forced to accept ever cleverer diesels through taxing CO2 emissions.
We have a diesel VW with wheelchair ramp through motability. It's f ing awful - if they sold a petrol version we would have 'rented' that.
Hateful things, we can move away from diesels easily enough now, but the problem is on the used market - there's very little petrol powered choice because of the way the EU skewed the market. It'll be the lower end of the market that bears the brunt, the buyers who are stuck with knackered old diesels not through choice but because of a limited budget. Which mr mayor wants to reduce still further through extra taxation.
Not sure why they didn't go for them in Japan. I like to think they just new better. The likes of Honda and Toyota developed their own diesels just for the European market. Before that they were borrowing engines from the likes of ISUZU who make heavy duty stuff. Think there is only Honda who persist now. Nissan use Renault engines, Toyota have gone back to reading someone elses (they use BMW diesel engines now I think).
Oh and Mazda, but they seem to be out on a limb ploughing their own furrow with both diesel and petrol (both of which use the same 14:1 compression ratio!). Though I think they are pinning the tail on petrol for the near future....They have supposedly cracked HCCI and will have a petrol engine running an 18:1 compression.
Vipers said:
Does anyone make a petrol engined bus? Thinking of the amount of diesel engined buses in London for starters.
Don't know but in California for example a lot of their buses use CNG. Much cleaner and as a fuel methane has the lowest carbon-hydrogen ratio of the lot.Fully electric buses aren't far anyway I don't think. Company called proterra in the US will be making a bus with a 660khw battery!
Vipers said:
In common use I wonder.
For info :- http://londonist.com/2016/09/london-bus-facts
There's a few buses in Reading running on lpg:For info :- http://londonist.com/2016/09/london-bus-facts
Edited by Vipers on Saturday 25th February 19:45
http://www.reading-buses.co.uk/environment
hammo19 said:
Should we mention the environmental impact of creating and disposing of EV batteries here?.
Perhaps. Of course the new EVs bring with them a different set of environmental problems.But it seems for now and into the future our need to move about in our own little private, wheeled boxes will impart some kind of detrimental environmental effect. I think it will boil down to the lesser of the evils. It'll never be properly sorted till we have fusion and the ability to teleport.
lets be honest if cars switched to EV the infrastructure is there. We have LPG and petrol so use them until we can work out where all the electricity is coming from. My idea would be to have massive sun farm plants in Africa that could sent power back to the uk.
Also Deisel can be run clean, engine have been made to so they should look at that as well in the meantime.
Also Deisel can be run clean, engine have been made to so they should look at that as well in the meantime.
Markbarry1977 said:
Nottingham has quite an extensive tram system which is continually being expanded. Yes it's a ball ache when there installing the rails but for something which follows a dedicated route time after time (such as a bus) then they have to be the better solution to buses.
I do wonder why they don't just re-introduce trolley buses, you still need the overhead power lines but no mucking about digging up the road.
davepoth said:
Mr Snrub said:
Driveway and work car park are the operative words - many do not have either
But a lot of people do. Here are some stats.http://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/overnight-p...
about 80% of people have some form of off-road parking at home. If even 50% of people have off-road parking at work that would be a 90% chance that a person would have somewhere to plug in every work day - and I guess it would be higher than that.
Welshbeef said:
Yet another superb idea from Maggie that these lefties will despise her for such a shame.
Lean burn was effectively killed off by the introduction of catalytic converters. To be fair, health wise I'm sure we're all now significantly better off having breathed in 30mpg-worth of catalysed exhaust fumes over the last 30 years rather than 60mpg of uncatalysed.techguyone said:
@Willy Nilly
I doubt very much your jazz is doing 50 mpg urban, tell me your year & model
My Jazz (trip comp) says low 40's town (more likely high 30's)
2011 EX 1.4
My wife's Jazz gets around 38 mpg urban. It's never achieved 50 mpg, even on a steady run.I doubt very much your jazz is doing 50 mpg urban, tell me your year & model
My Jazz (trip comp) says low 40's town (more likely high 30's)
2011 EX 1.4
It's also a 1.4 EX.
Surely a lot of the issue is taxis and buses. I find it incredible that in 2017 we are still using taxis which do short trips around town with an old diesel engine up front. Some of them wernt efficient when they were new 15 years ago, and compared to a modern petrol they are horribly dirty.
I suspect things will change now Geeley own the London Taxi Co, but they are starting from a long way behind consumer cars.
I suspect things will change now Geeley own the London Taxi Co, but they are starting from a long way behind consumer cars.
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