Discussion
The campaign launches today, at 10pm
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/84384375...
So here it is
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/uber/
Maugham wants to raise £75k to start the ball rolling by suing Uber in the high court to give him a receipt for a ride he took
A gizmo do article on the case too
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/meet-the-uk-barri...
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/84384375...
So here it is
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/uber/
Maugham wants to raise £75k to start the ball rolling by suing Uber in the high court to give him a receipt for a ride he took
A gizmo do article on the case too
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/meet-the-uk-barri...
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 20th March 22:18
nyxster said:
VAT rules are fairly clearcut.
VAT has to be accounted for on chargeable products and services at every point of the supply chain. Regardless of whether uber describes itself as a digital service, agency or transport service it is liable to account for VAT on sales to the end customer when its turnover exceeds the threshold and regardless of the VAT status of its subcontractors or suppliers.
The Supreme Court decided that wasn't the situation with Secret Hotels 2 (Med Hotels owned by lastminute.com)VAT has to be accounted for on chargeable products and services at every point of the supply chain. Regardless of whether uber describes itself as a digital service, agency or transport service it is liable to account for VAT on sales to the end customer when its turnover exceeds the threshold and regardless of the VAT status of its subcontractors or suppliers.
- https://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2014/march/sup...
An interesting tweet on the campaign by Wes Sweeting.... you know, MP, member of the Treasury Select Committee...
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441598926...
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441598926...
JPJPJP said:
An interesting tweet on the campaign by Wes Sweeting.... you know, MP, member of the Treasury Select Committee...
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441598926...
I feel uneasy about this whole thing...https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441598926...
Crowd funding to sue someone, MPs cheering on someone doing something they probably ought to be doing themselves (if there was just cause).
Doesn't seem right.
Yes, it seem weird that a private case of this nature is on the cards
Weird that HMRC is silent on the matter
And weird that an MP / Member of the Treasury select committee pledges to financially support the crowdfunding for the case "after pay day"
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441600230...
What's going on??
Weird that HMRC is silent on the matter
And weird that an MP / Member of the Treasury select committee pledges to financially support the crowdfunding for the case "after pay day"
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/8441600230...
What's going on??
JPJPJP said:
Some people with knowledge of the machinations of VAT laws are saying that a recently published UTT decision adds weight to the argument that VAT should be charged on Uber fares
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58c...
H/T to @DanNeidle on twitter who picks out a relevant paragraph
Whilst Dan is not a VAT specialist, I work with him on transactions occasionally where we share a tax role, and I have to say he is a really good practitioner.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58c...
H/T to @DanNeidle on twitter who picks out a relevant paragraph
So far the crowdjustice case has raised £11,243 from 497 backers
There seems to be a bit of interest out there
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/uber/
There seems to be a bit of interest out there
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/uber/
Alpinestars said:
JPJPJP said:
Some people with knowledge of the machinations of VAT laws are saying that a recently published UTT decision adds weight to the argument that VAT should be charged on Uber fares
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58c...
H/T to @DanNeidle on twitter who picks out a relevant paragraph
Whilst Dan is not a VAT specialist, I work with him on transactions occasionally where we share a tax role, and I have to say he is a really good practitioner.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58c...
H/T to @DanNeidle on twitter who picks out a relevant paragraph
johnfm said:
Do receipts from black cab drivers separate out the VAT? I cannot recall getting a VAT receipt the last time I used one.
That's not necessarily a fair (see what I did there ) comparison as generally they are hailed not booked.I would agree that I have never been given a VAT receipt from a minicab I've booked however.
Taxi services are standard rated for VAT so, where the required turnover threshold is reached, the supplier of the service has to be VAT registered
When you take a black cab / mini cab, the provider of the service might not be obvious to you: is it the driver, is it a mini cab firm? Moreover, it might not be obvious to you if the service provider should or should not be registered for VAT. So, your request for a VAT receipt (as opposed to a receipt), may meet with any from a variety of responses.
A minicab firm I use from time to time supplies a VAT invoice for every journey I take with them (based on its drivers being employees). A taxi driver that I have used reasonably frequently does not.
Anyway, here is a thread on a taxi driver's forum referring to a case from way back in 2009 when a taxi firm was found, by the VAT Tribunal, to owe VAT on the account customers it had done business with. It illustrates some key points about how VAT rules are applied to taxi services.
It is a short read! I don't know, without digging a bit, if the case was appealed or not
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?...
The case that Maugham is making centres on the fact that he says Uber should be VAT registered, but appears not to be. The High Court will be the first stage in the process to judge that claim.
To draw a perfect parallel with the Bath Taxis case would be wrong, but it is about right to say that Maugham is saying that Uber is the principal in the relationship with riders and, as it turns over more than the threshold at which it must register for VAT, it should have done so, but appears not to have.
Maugham goes on to say that if his case is successful, then HMRC could rule that every fare collected by Uber for quite some time included VAT and that money is, therefore, owed to HMRC.
When you take a black cab / mini cab, the provider of the service might not be obvious to you: is it the driver, is it a mini cab firm? Moreover, it might not be obvious to you if the service provider should or should not be registered for VAT. So, your request for a VAT receipt (as opposed to a receipt), may meet with any from a variety of responses.
A minicab firm I use from time to time supplies a VAT invoice for every journey I take with them (based on its drivers being employees). A taxi driver that I have used reasonably frequently does not.
Anyway, here is a thread on a taxi driver's forum referring to a case from way back in 2009 when a taxi firm was found, by the VAT Tribunal, to owe VAT on the account customers it had done business with. It illustrates some key points about how VAT rules are applied to taxi services.
It is a short read! I don't know, without digging a bit, if the case was appealed or not
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?...
The case that Maugham is making centres on the fact that he says Uber should be VAT registered, but appears not to be. The High Court will be the first stage in the process to judge that claim.
To draw a perfect parallel with the Bath Taxis case would be wrong, but it is about right to say that Maugham is saying that Uber is the principal in the relationship with riders and, as it turns over more than the threshold at which it must register for VAT, it should have done so, but appears not to have.
Maugham goes on to say that if his case is successful, then HMRC could rule that every fare collected by Uber for quite some time included VAT and that money is, therefore, owed to HMRC.
If one of Maugham's objectives was publicity (of which there is no doubt in my mind that it was), then he is doing quite well
Here he is on CNBC (front page at the time of posting)
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/03/24/uber-taxes-vat...
Here he is on CNBC (front page at the time of posting)
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/03/24/uber-taxes-vat...
johnfm said:
Do receipts from black cab drivers separate out the VAT? I cannot recall getting a VAT receipt the last time I used one.
This is the crux of the point. Individuals who are self employed need to exceed the VAT turnover threshold. If you spread income over enough businesses (self employed people), so that the individual self employed business don't exceed the threshold, there's no VAT. "Consolidate" the income onto Uber ltd/BV etc (because drivers are deemed to be employees), and the threshold is exceeded and blows a huge hole in the business model. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff