Brexit Celebrations

Author
Discussion

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
Thirded

SKP555 said:
Some flag waving and fireworks on a nice summer's evening should not be seen as a divisive dig at people who thought differently last year but as a positive and inclusive step towards national renewal.
This only really works when it was something people were broadly united behind in the first place. Maybe 70/30. Or 80/20 even better.

Not 52/48.
Celebrating an election result is a bit....... Zimbabwean.

Morningside

24,110 posts

228 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
quotequote all
Camoradi said:


music

"I'm so brexcited...
and I just can't hide it
UK regains control
and I think I like it"
Should they be in the swingers thread?

TTwiggy

11,499 posts

203 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
quotequote all

Guybrush

4,328 posts

205 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
I think a new public holiday 'independence day' would be a good idea.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
I'll just do what I did last year - drive to work, humming the theme to The Great Escape.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
It's a flaw of democracy, but is tyranny of the minority any better?

dandarez

13,244 posts

282 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
mac96 said:
Vocal Minority said:
mac96 said:
In 5 years' time when we know if it paid off?
But he wants to rub remainer's noses in it now....
I rashly thought OP was being humorous. If serious, the answer is that a celebration would be needlessly divisive.
We have enough problems to deal with without that. Let's just get on with it.
If only remainers had said that from the day after the result, eh?

I'm old enough to have voted in the first ref. After it, and prior it, we did exactly what your last sentence states.
In the intervening years till now, we have experienced enough problems on the way. As just one example, once upon a time we had raging inflation and strikes everywhere.
We just got on with it.

pingu393

7,709 posts

204 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
I'm planning a Brexit Tour in the summer of 2018.

All the EU countries on the mainland. It'll take about 3 weeks.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&a...

Edited by pingu393 on Friday 17th March 01:08

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
We have no idea if its a success or not as we don't know if going the other way would have been better.

Therefore we have nothing to celebrate.

SKP555

Original Poster:

1,114 posts

125 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
A more complete answer...

It's the fact thay it's contentious which gives it it's significance.

It would have been easier and less risky to simply have stayed where we were, and been subsumed into the declining European project.

People chose to vote leave in spite of the upheaval and the risk, and largely people did so out of a belief in self determination and democratic government. Even if you are one of those who didn't want the difficulties this may throw up in the short term or who puts these things lower down your list of priorities than stability and immediate prosperity, it is a courageous and principled decision.

Look at it like packing in your comfortable 9-5 job which has paid your bills for 20 years because it was destroying your soul.

Further, I believe this makes the opposition to leaving ultimately hollow and short term. The only really strong arguments to remain centred on the disruption leaving could cause to trade, travel, visa arrangements etc. They were a powerful argument for not changing anything but after leaving they will never be any aort of argument for rejoining.

For that you would need an ideological and emotional commitment to the EU and that is something that barely seems to exist in this country in the way it does on the continent. And even amongst those who do hold such a view it's not axiomatic that Britain should be a part of it.

This will fade away very quickly and I am confident that in 10 years time there will be no more question of Britain joining the EU than there is of us joining the Eurozone.

Lastly, this will not go away.

Even if the government decides to can the whole thing tomorrow we won't be back to where we were before the referendum. We would be a proven reluctant member of a deeply unpopular EU whose electorate had been betrayed and whose democracy was a laughing stock.

So whatever you thought was the best course of action last summer the important thing now is to make the absolute best of what happens next, not attempt some apologetic damage limitation exercise or hope it will all go away. Scanning the polls for signs of Bregret that never come or manufacturing spikes in "hate crimes" in the hope that a tenuous connection with racism will discredit the whole venture.

If not Brexit, support self determination and democracy with enthusiasm because it's the best chance we have of making it work.

Tryke3

1,609 posts

93 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
SKP555 said:
If we grab it by the bks and make some radical reforms at home (a proper second chamber, a meaningful bill of rights, a genuinely balanced budget for the long term) and advance a big, global agenda in trade and foreign policy then I think it is far more likely to succeed.
Who in the goverment do you think is capable of doing any of that? U turn after u turn, current goverment is going on full retard imo

Anyway, bet the EU will still be here stronger than ever in the next 10 years. I have travelled extensively with work in the last 2 years, EU area especially the old eastern block is unrecognisable from even 5 years ago. The way i see it populism needs to have its 5 minutes of being in power, it will quickly die out. Hungary will show that

Edited by Tryke3 on Friday 17th March 02:08

SKP555

Original Poster:

1,114 posts

125 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Tryke3 said:
Who in the goverment do you think is capable of doing any of that? U turn after u turn, current goverment is going on full retard imo

Anyway, bet the EU will still be here stronger than ever in the next 10 years. I have travelled extensively with work in the last 2 years, EU area especially the old eastern block is unrecognisable from even 5 years ago. The way i see it populism needs to have its 5 minutes of being in power, it will quickly die out. Hungary will show that

Edited by Tryke3 on Friday 17th March 02:08
We don't have to rely entirely on the government to do it. They will do what gets them elected.

As for fleeting populism - do you think that we will just quietly forget about it and rejoin the EU in a couple of years?

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
mac96 said:
I rashly thought OP was being humorous. If serious, the answer is that a celebration would be needlessly divisive. We have enough problems to deal with without that. Let's just get on with it.
Needlessly divisive? Lol like remoaners have graciously accepted the democratic vote and want to work together to make brexit work.


I visit customers where remoaners don't even talk to work colleagues because the voted for brexit.

chow pan toon

12,356 posts

236 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Needlessly divisive? Lol like remoaners have graciously accepted the democratic vote and want to work together to make brexit work.


I visit customers where remoaners don't even talk to work colleagues because the voted for brexit.
Agreed. We have had idiots talking about a 52-48 result as being "unfinished business", I bet if they had won they'd be demanding people suck it up and get on with it. wkers the lot of them.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
SKP555 said:
A more complete answer...

It's the fact thay it's contentious which gives it it's significance.

It would have been easier and less risky to simply have stayed where we were, and been subsumed into the declining European project.

People chose to vote leave in spite of the upheaval and the risk, and largely people did so out of a belief in self determination and democratic government. Even if you are one of those who didn't want the difficulties this may throw up in the short term or who puts these things lower down your list of priorities than stability and immediate prosperity, it is a courageous and principled decision.

Look at it like packing in your comfortable 9-5 job which has paid your bills for 20 years because it was destroying your soul.

Further, I believe this makes the opposition to leaving ultimately hollow and short term. The only really strong arguments to remain centred on the disruption leaving could cause to trade, travel, visa arrangements etc. They were a powerful argument for not changing anything but after leaving they will never be any aort of argument for rejoining.

For that you would need an ideological and emotional commitment to the EU and that is something that barely seems to exist in this country in the way it does on the continent. And even amongst those who do hold such a view it's not axiomatic that Britain should be a part of it.

This will fade away very quickly and I am confident that in 10 years time there will be no more question of Britain joining the EU than there is of us joining the Eurozone.

Lastly, this will not go away.

Even if the government decides to can the whole thing tomorrow we won't be back to where we were before the referendum. We would be a proven reluctant member of a deeply unpopular EU whose electorate had been betrayed and whose democracy was a laughing stock.

So whatever you thought was the best course of action last summer the important thing now is to make the absolute best of what happens next, not attempt some apologetic damage limitation exercise or hope it will all go away. Scanning the polls for signs of Bregret that never come or manufacturing spikes in "hate crimes" in the hope that a tenuous connection with racism will discredit the whole venture.

If not Brexit, support self determination and democracy with enthusiasm because it's the best chance we have of making it work.
Thank you ,well said ...

princealbert23

2,574 posts

160 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
chow pan toon said:
Agreed. We have had idiots talking about a 52-48 result as being "unfinished business", I bet if they had won they'd be demanding people suck it up and get on with it. wkers the lot of them.
Another agreed. It is not as is they accepted the decision graciously and ceased acting decisively. Those with hurt feelings don't deserve sympathy.

princealbert23

2,574 posts

160 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
It's a flaw of democracy, but is tyranny of the minority any better?
That is simply facism.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Nigel Farage's birthday?

Are you fking kidding me?

That was a joke - right?

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
To all those calling remainers bad losers - you can't paint all 16 point something million with the same brush. Some students, gobby oiks and legal types looking to further their career.

Let's not forget that petition that was hijacked about at lest 60% of the vote being required to be binding - was started as a hedge against losing by a leave supporter! I dare say there would have been decent support behind it from whichever side lost

The moral of the story here is that - not all brexiteers are bad losers, not all remainers are bad losers. When you have a group of 16 or 17 million people, an amount of both will inevitably be gobby, bad losers.

We'd have heard from that group regardless.

Seriously - stop talking about 'remainers being bad losers' like its all 16 million - its really silly. I know a roughly 50/50 split of remainers/leavers, I dare say like most. Some of which are very harcore in each camp. They have all been gracious to a fault.

Anyway, moving on.

SKP555 said:
A more complete answer...

It's the fact thay it's contentious which gives it it's significance.
I don't think anyone is denying its significance. However, your vision of some sort of unifying last night of the proms style celebration won't happen because of that contentiousness. It would be a victory lap for people who think its right.


SKP555 said:
It would have been easier and less risky to simply have stayed where we were, and been subsumed into the declining European project.

People chose to vote leave in spite of the upheaval and the risk, and largely people did so out of a belief in self determination and democratic government. Even if you are one of those who didn't want the difficulties this may throw up in the short term or who puts these things lower down your list of priorities than stability and immediate prosperity, it is a courageous and principled decision.

Look at it like packing in your comfortable 9-5 job which has paid your bills for 20 years because it was destroying your soul.

Further, I believe this makes the opposition to leaving ultimately hollow and short term. The only really strong arguments to remain centred on the disruption leaving could cause to trade, travel, visa arrangements etc. They were a powerful argument for not changing anything but after leaving they will never be any aort of argument for rejoining.

For that you would need an ideological and emotional commitment to the EU and that is something that barely seems to exist in this country in the way it does on the continent. And even amongst those who do hold such a view it's not axiomatic that Britain should be a part of it.

This will fade away very quickly and I am confident that in 10 years time there will be no more question of Britain joining the EU than there is of us joining the Eurozone.

Lastly, this will not go away.

Even if the government decides to can the whole thing tomorrow we won't be back to where we were before the referendum. We would be a proven reluctant member of a deeply unpopular EU whose electorate had been betrayed and whose democracy was a laughing stock.

So whatever you thought was the best course of action last summer the important thing now is to make the absolute best of what happens next, not attempt some apologetic damage limitation exercise or hope it will all go away. Scanning the polls for signs of Bregret that never come or manufacturing spikes in "hate crimes" in the hope that a tenuous connection with racism will discredit the whole venture.

If not Brexit, support self determination and democracy with enthusiasm because it's the best chance we have of making it work.
And that's fine. You've stated what you believe and why you voted pretty eloquently and more power to you (literally in this case!)

A fully respect the decision. It has been made. As do the vast majority of people who voted remain.

But to believe any sort of celebration would be anything other than a victory lap for people who think it is the right decision is a bit naïve in my opinion.

I certainly wouldn't take part, because I don't believe it was the right decision. I wouldn't stop you having your own personal street party (I sense you will be!) - hope you enjoy yourself. But as a national event in the name of unity? Really?

(as I by the by to people still moaning about bitter remainers - I think a lot more people 'accept' the decision than you think - as in realise its the will of the people and wont resist. But I do sometimes wonder whether some think acceptance means remainers should back down totally and say they were wrong to vote remain - and that anything else is like some sort of wilful resistance - and THATS why you're cross.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
its worth celebrating the decline of the "expert" who got nearly everything wrong about a Brexit aftermath.
Toyota only yesterday announcing a £200mil investment in Burnaston. Nobody can predict the future but it will at least be our decisions and not those anchored to a failing Eurozone.