Brexit Celebrations
Discussion
Mrr T said:
SKP555 said:
Mrr T said:
In order to pass legislation he will need a coalition with close to 50% of the vote. So far more legitimacy then a FPTP leader with 30% of the vote.
Even if it's passing a restriction on abortion in exchange for relaxing banking regulations?SKP555 said:
Mrr T said:
SKP555 said:
Mrr T said:
In order to pass legislation he will need a coalition with close to 50% of the vote. So far more legitimacy then a FPTP leader with 30% of the vote.
Even if it's passing a restriction on abortion in exchange for relaxing banking regulations?In the UK FPP the government has all the power based on 30% of the vote and at the next election 80% of the voters will not be able to effect any change in parties elected.
While I understand the benefits of FPP it raises serious questions about a democratic deficiency.
jonnyb said:
sidicks said:
jonnyb said:
Personally, I'm more in favour of regulation. In my opinion the EU should be a state in its own right and should be governed as such.
I am a federalist.
So you'll be heading to the EU to live once we've left?I am a federalist.
You rattlebrain.
I'd relax, though, the EU will have crumbled before your long haul gets going.
SpielBoy said:
Unlike the current situation where a minority party holds total power ??
True. But our main parties tend to be broader and usually Tory or Labour win by encompassing small groups such as the Tory eurosceptics but also having a wider appeal. Smaller parties like UKIP (and the Greens etc) can exert their influence by challenging them at elections. This also cuts out back room dealing after the elections. Neither system is perfect.
SpielBoy said:
SKP555 said:
The point is small minority parties can still wield huge power under PR.
Unlike the current situation where a minority party holds total power ??sidicks said:
mybrainhurts said:
You want to subject yourself to rule by a body that elected to be antidemocratic in perpetuity?
You rattlebrain.
I'd relax, though, the EU will have crumbled before your long haul gets going.
Indeed - some people have a very strange logic (or lack thereof)!You rattlebrain.
I'd relax, though, the EU will have crumbled before your long haul gets going.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Labour last gained power for 13 years with an even smaller percentage of the voting public behind it. Your point?
You can find any party that gains a majority in the HoC to be an abhorrent concept without being a hypocrite? If this conversation was happening in 1998 it'd be exactly as valid as it is now.Pan Pan Pan said:
SpielBoy said:
SKP555 said:
The point is small minority parties can still wield huge power under PR.
Unlike the current situation where a minority party holds total power ??Pretty simple point
If you believe in democracy - then parliament should represent the views of all voters - when you are happy when your party (or any party) gets to form a government on a minority of the vote - then you are not a democrat.
There are serious and divisive risks to our country if we continue to have political parties voted into power on a minority of the vote.
SpielBoy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
SpielBoy said:
SKP555 said:
The point is small minority parties can still wield huge power under PR.
Unlike the current situation where a minority party holds total power ??Pretty simple point
If you believe in democracy - then parliament should represent the views of all voters - when you are happy when your party (or any party) gets to form a government on a minority of the vote - then you are not a democrat.
There are serious and divisive risks to our country if we continue to have political parties voted into power on a minority of the vote.
However, the alternative is to require an unpredictable by the electorate coalition, where key aspects of every party's manifestos are rendered moot.
Look at the Lib Dems. Negotiated the removal of the tuition fees promise, pissed off their electorate sufficiently for there to be carnage at the next election.
Manifestos cover a vast array of topics. Any one could be the rationale for a vote in their favour. How do you ensure that those votes are respected by those that vote for them?
The only alternative would be to replace representative democracy with direct democracy - yet this is fraught with challenge too, many significant enough to terrify any clear thinking voter.
Sway said:
The only alternative would be to replace representative democracy with direct democracy - yet this is fraught with challenge too, many significant enough to terrify any clear thinking voter.
The death penalty is a perfect example of that, would almost certainly become law again if we had direct democracy.SpielBoy said:
There are serious and divisive risks to our country if we continue to have political parties voted into power on a minority of the vote.
As opposed to PR systems where you end up with genuinely abhorrent people like Wilders, and the other facist politicians on the continent either threatening power or sharing in it. One of the positive side effects of our system is that it has shut out extremist groups like the BNP, Socialist Worker etc.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Will the EU be providing Audited Accounts for us to examine, now that would be something to celebrate.
Good question, Since the EU have never had their accounts signed off (there is a surprise!), how are `they' going to be able to show who, has paid what in a way that the UK can believe. All the UK has on record is what it has paid into EU coffers, and what small amounts of the UK`s own money has been received back from Brussels. Where all the rest of the cash the UK has paid into EU coffers has gone is anyone's guess.
Pan Pan Pan said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
Will the EU be providing Audited Accounts for us to examine, now that would be something to celebrate.
Good question, Since the EU have never had their accounts signed off (there is a surprise!), how are `they' going to be able to show who, has paid what in a way that the UK can believe. All the UK has on record is what it has paid into EU coffers, and what small amounts of the UK`s own money has been received back from Brussels. Where all the rest of the cash the UK has paid into EU coffers has gone is anyone's guess.
s ask for more to sweeten the deal tell them to fk off ,We have contributed more than we should , look at your audited accounts and sort out our refund first....
Pan Pan Pan said:
Good question, Since the EU have never had their accounts signed off (there is a surprise!), how are `they' going to be able to show who, has paid what in a way that the UK can believe.
All the UK has on record is what it has paid into EU coffers, and what small amounts of the UK`s own money has been received back from Brussels. Where all the rest of the cash the UK has paid into EU coffers has gone is anyone's guess.
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/All the UK has on record is what it has paid into EU coffers, and what small amounts of the UK`s own money has been received back from Brussels. Where all the rest of the cash the UK has paid into EU coffers has gone is anyone's guess.
So what does all this say about the EU’s accounts? The numbers accurately reflect what’s actually happened, it’s just that some of it shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
So it isn't anyone's guess-the EU knows where the money went.
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