Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[Tryke3]

simoid said:

Smollet said:

Just supposing that a referendum takes place in Sturgeon's allotted time frame and they lose what happens then? Another referendum saying Brexit hadn't been implemented so we need to take that into account and the last one was meaningless? This will go on and on either until she gets her way or the Scottish people tire of the whole thing and decide to stay within the UK for at least a true term generation.

On the "Scottish people tiring" - SNP voters on the edge of the spectrum of nationalism begin to choose other parties again, after reading sensible and rational debate from people who believe in stability. The SNP vote in Holyrood falls and is replaced by the other parties. Minority & partnership government returns "for a generation".

I think that could be the way to go. Scotland is a rational country, but much of the reason has been clouded by our politicians in recent campaigns.

The debate just has to shift away from the nationalist rhetoric and playing field about "Tory Brexit" and back to "what the fk do you actually propose we do when we leave the U.K.?" and they'll fall to bits.

With st like that no wonder many scots want to break free from the union. Remember the EU referdum and what remainers claimed. You are doing the same thing

[davepoth]

Tryke3 said:

With st like that no wonder many scots want to break free from the union. Remember the EU referdum and what remainers claimed. You are doing the same thing

No, he's just saying "what's the plan?". The situation is different in Scotland because the Leave side is the government - they are the people who will carry the country out of the UK, so they really should know how it will happen.

[mikal83]

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

[FN2TypeR]

davepoth said:

FN2TypeR said:

And yet they may just win any second referendum - you're making a colossal mistake indeed if you think that rational thinking, facts or the truth are going to enter into political decisions for a great many people these days.

Quite. It's a bad idea to imagine that everyone will be rational. The SNP have in all likelihood passed their high watermark in terms of power - they are showing themselves to not be a good party of government, and their plan to govern Scotland was ultimately what put them into power in the first place given that a lot of Scots who voted No also voted SNP.

With that in mind it's likely that come 2021 the number of MSPs in favour of a referendum will be a minority (it'll only take a small swing) and so independence will be off the table for the foreseeable future. With clarity over the Brexit deal independence will look much less attractive, so the SNP are really feeling quite a bit of pressure to get this done ASAP and that means the fewest facts possible.

I wonder what effect, if any, this will have on their support at the Westminster and Holyrood elections? Plenty of people vote SNP but are (or were) no voters in the indy ref, if there is either a Westminster or Holyrood election prior to any second referendum and she's still making noises about indy ref 2 I wonder if it would damage their support from that demographic?

[GoneAnon]

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

I,for one, remain committed to independence but have stopped responding on these threads because of the bile and abuse that pours forth frm the Unionists.

Already in just the first 8 pages of this new volume we are seeing unpleasent nameplates and attacks for no reason other than some people hold independent views.

[technodup]

Tryke3 said:

With st like that no wonder many scots want to break free from the union. Remember the EU referdum and what remainers claimed. You are doing the same thing

Is it fk.

Nobody can see the future, so although Brexiters can't predict the specifics of a deal, or how it good or bad it will be economically the basic premise was quite clear. Get out of a 40 year association with the EU. The UK is one of the top economies in the world, with all the requisite institutions for an independent country. It is a nuclear power and basically can hold it's own in the world.

In Scotland's case we're getting out of a much colser 300 year union. We don't know whether we'll be in the EU, tagging along behind it or out altogether. We don't know what currency we'll be using, how our deficit will be addressed or how relations will be with our closest neighbour. We have none of the said institutions or central bank, and have no idea how much/how long they will take to establish.

Essentially we have some fag packet calculations, some mutterings about Norway and a big dose of 'it'll be alright on the night' rhetoric.

It's utterly risible how after having a referendum in 2014, and a big chunk of that defeat due to lack of answers re currency they are now pushing for another referendum, yet they still don't have any answers re currency. That's SNP logic right there.

[FN2TypeR]

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

Maybe they can't be arsed with pricks making comments like that.

[mikal83]

FN2TypeR said:

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

Maybe they can't be arsed with pricks making comments like that.

You need to get a life

[FN2TypeR]

mikal83 said:

FN2TypeR said:

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

Maybe they can't be arsed with pricks making comments like that.

You need to get a life

Oh yah, my criticism of you using a term like sweatyland is a clear indication of that, no doubt about it

[Lefty]

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

PH is a forum for people interested in performance cars. These cars tend to cost money to buy and run. Earning money tends to require education and/or some level of business acumen. Ergo, not many SNP voters on PH.

Edited by Lefty on Sunday 19th March 07:37

[Janluke]

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

I reckon both sides are so entrenched in their views that very few people seem up for genuine debate. There is plenty of debate online but all Nats talking with Nats and Unionists talking to Unionists. Even in the organic world I'll talk stuff through my my "No" pals but just can't be bothered to go though the whole debate with my pals who voted yes. I think they are wrong and won't listen to reason and they think the same of me. We're not prepared to fall out about it so we just except that the other guy is wrong.

There is a weariness about the whole thing and a reluctance to go through all the nonsense again on both sides.

[Willy Nilly]

GoneAnon said:

I,for one, remain committed to independence but have stopped responding on these threads because of the bile and abuse that pours forth frm the Unionists.

Already in just the first 8 pages of this new volume we are seeing unpleasent nameplates and attacks for no reason other than some people hold independent views.

Sitting south of the border without a say in proceedings, there seems to be a huge amount of bile and abuse given to anyone who dare speak up against independence.

[wobert]

Drip, drip, drip again......

Is it any wonder people in a position of influence choose to ignore rhetoric like this:

"Let the PM be in no doubt - the will of our parliament must and will prevail."

Typical argy-bargy from the "wee one" and she has the audacity to criticise the PM for not listening and not negotiating......is it any wonder....

[Tryke3]

davepoth said:

Tryke3 said:

With st like that no wonder many scots want to break free from the union. Remember the EU referdum and what remainers claimed. You are doing the same thing

No, he's just saying "what's the plan?". The situation is different in Scotland because the Leave side is the government - they are the people who will carry the country out of the UK, so they really should know how it will happen.

8 months after the EU referendum we still dont have a plan, seems everyone is quite happy with that so why should the scots have a ironclad plan when one is not needed.

[Alpacaman]

GoneAnon said:

I,for one, remain committed to independence but have stopped responding on these threads because of the bile and abuse that pours forth frm the Unionists.

Already in just the first 8 pages of this new volume we are seeing unpleasent nameplates and attacks for no reason other than some people hold independent views.

Are you really surprised? Considering the vile abuse heaped on Unionists in the run up to the last referendum and pretty much every day since. I, for one, can fully understand the growing anger from them. Whilst I would never try and claim Unionists were perfect they weren't the ones that wanted a vote, they had it forced on them and then, when they thought it was over for a generation, it turned out that even the day after the vote that it was starting again. And pretty much every day since we have had more nonsense from the snp about another vote.

Also the fact that the snp seem to have no answers to any of the big economic questions even now seems utterly crazy and that we should somehow accept that everything will somehow be OK based on the utter mess they are making of running Scotland at the moment. The fact that none of you seem able to see the harm you are doing to Scotland, why would any Company invest in Scotland with the chance of referendum after referendum until they get the answer they want. And then what? An utterly divided country competing against the rest of the UK and the EU? And anyone who dares question this is somehow talking Scotland down.

So if you are worried about bile and abuse I suggest you look at many of your fellow nationalists, starting from the top, and understand why, after nearly 5 years of putting up with it, many of us have had enough and are starting to get angry about it.

Even that fact we are now divided into Unionists and Nationalists is utterly stupid.

Edited by Alpacaman on Saturday 18th March 18:33

[Hainey]

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

Eh? Are you reading the thread volumes or just trying to to be ignorant?

[Ian Geary]

Tam_Mullen said:

danllama said:

Would it be possible to simply dissolve Scotland into England?

That seems like two birds with one stone to me.

I'm opposed to another referendum, and would be voting no, but you can fk off with this idea

Why not dissolve England into Scotland?

Free uni education, social care and prescriptions sounds pretty tasty, and England is nearly as old as Scotland anyway, right?

I'm sure the snp would allocate a token seat or two in their assembly.

And then we can bh all day about those distant folks in Edinburgh not representing our needs, and treating us as a geographically and culturally distant add on.


Where do we sign?

[s2art]

Tryke3 said:

8 months after the EU referendum we still dont have a plan, seems everyone is quite happy with that so why should the scots have a ironclad plan when one is not needed.

But we do have a plan, albeit the detail is still being worked on. The SNP have been trying for independence for decades and still cant answer basic questions 'such as what currency and how to get there?'

[csd19]

Apologies for the Huffington link, but the wee stebag is now urging people from the rest of the UK to move to Scotland to avoid Brexit...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nicola-sturg...

Yep just come and move up here, so that when the UK leaves the EU, you can enjoy the benefits of a failing education system, humped police service, and the joys of higher taxation.

What's not to love??

fking wee shortarse ringpiece.

[mikal83]

FN2TypeR said:

mikal83 said:

FN2TypeR said:

mikal83 said:

The SNP has a lot of supporters in sweatyland. I am assuming that there are a few PHers up north. Are they hiding? Why aren't they standing up for what they believe in. Probably 95% + of the posts here take the piss out of wee Jimmy and her sidekick at Westminster.....c'mon, don't be afraid.

Maybe they can't be arsed with pricks making comments like that.

You need to get a life

Oh yah, my criticism of you using a term like sweatyland is a clear indication of that, no doubt about it

Pull back your lower lip, pick up your handbag and go home. Mummy says its din dins.