Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
someone asked a few pages back why nationalists dont post on this thread, okay i'll tell you why. Now I joined pistonheads as I believed it was a place for petrolheads to hang out in the virtual world of the internet, find like minded people and as a marshal discuss motorsport and how wet and cold it was at Knockhill on any particular sunday in july. I am also a strong believer in independence for Scotland, i rarely post on this topic as it is just an invitation for personal abuse
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
marshal_alan said:
someone asked a few pages back why nationalists dont post on this thread, okay i'll tell you why. Now I joined pistonheads as I believed it was a place for petrolheads to hang out in the virtual world of the internet, find like minded people and as a marshal discuss motorsport and how wet and cold it was at Knockhill on any particular sunday in july. I am also a strong believer in independence for Scotland, i rarely post on this topic as it is just an invitation for personal abuse
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
Surprised you can see through such rose tinted glasses
marshal_alan said:
You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
There are off people on both sides though. I mean, were the lot which marched on the BBC because a journalist actually asked a proper question someone failed to have an answer for (when they really should have done) a "carnival" atmosphere united in a nice friendly manner?thats my views
Big Rod said:
B'stard Child said:
Looks nothing like you fella - you are 7 foot tall and built like a brick sheet house and I've never seen you holding whirlygig flowers or wearing pink tinted glasses or have your hair in pigtails..... (not actually sure you have enough hair to do that)
But if you say so I'm in no position to argue sir.
Sometimes on the weekend when I'm Felicity.But if you say so I'm in no position to argue sir.
That's a worse image than Techiedave promotes in my head
marshal_alan said:
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views.
I have mentioned this incident a few times in previous iterations of this thread, but it bears repeating. The date was 15th September 2014, it was late afternoon and I had parked up in front of my local high street Bank of Scotland branch to pop in and sort a couple of transactions. I had come straight from work and was wearing suit/shirt/tie. I had parked behind a Rover 200 saloon (R8 model) adorned with enough saltires/Yes roundels/Bairns not Bombs stickers to make abundantely clear the political persuasion of the owner, who happened to be on the pavement proudly wearing his tartan and official 'Yes Scotland' id badge and was asking every passer-by if they would be 'voting yes to free Scotland from the tyranny of the Red Tories' (exact words).I avoided his approaches on the way into the bank, but was accosted on the way out. When I politely refused to answer his question replying, 'that will be between me and the ballot box, thanks!' his reply was a very loud 'So, you'll be one of those f
king Tories, then!?'.He didn't even use the Cameron euphamisism - full on f-word in a packed high-street busy with families with young children.
First and last time I've been sworn at in a public place by a complete stranger who judged me by nothing more than my attire and that I didn't want to join in in his conformation bias.
SilverSixer said:
Can't upload it from behind my work firewall, but I have a Vote Leave 'leaflet' on my computer which states the following:
"There is a Free Trade Zone from Iceland to Turkey and the Russian Border and we willb epart of it".
Quote from Dan Hannan of Vote Leave:
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single market".
Quote from Owen Paterson of Vote Leave:
"Because only a madman would actually leave the Market".
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain...
But you know all this, it's been posted on the brexit thread, and yet you continue to peddle misinformation that Vote Leave campaigned on the basis of leaving the Single Market. They didn't. The fact that some remainers said that it would be a natural consequence of leaving the EU and therefore we should remain has turned out to be quite correct.
A few people on the Leave side said we would stay in the single market. Many on the Leave side said we would leave the single market. As you will remember the official position of the Government was that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. All told, there was lots of talk on both sides of leaving the single market. It did not come as a shock after the event. "There is a Free Trade Zone from Iceland to Turkey and the Russian Border and we willb epart of it".
Quote from Dan Hannan of Vote Leave:
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single market".
Quote from Owen Paterson of Vote Leave:
"Because only a madman would actually leave the Market".
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain...
But you know all this, it's been posted on the brexit thread, and yet you continue to peddle misinformation that Vote Leave campaigned on the basis of leaving the Single Market. They didn't. The fact that some remainers said that it would be a natural consequence of leaving the EU and therefore we should remain has turned out to be quite correct.
And yet the people voted to leave, and did so knowing that there was a very high probability of leaving the single market.
It is entirely disingenuous of you to say that the Leave side said we would stay in the single market, as if some blanket policy statement was made. We may yet remain part of a free trade zone of some sort - that much remains to be seen.
In terms of Scottish independence the Scots voted in far larger numbers to remain in the UK than they did to remain in the EU. That's a simple fact. The anomalies of the relative percentages between the two referenda merely reflect the difference in turnout. More Scottish people felt motivated to express their desire to remain a part of the UK by participating in that ballot.
And I do think that if there were to be another ballot tomorrow on independence then the SNP would lose by a bigger margin! Why? Because not only is it the case that NONE of the great questions from the 2014 vote have been answered yet (currency, trade, jobs, deficit, EU membership) but its also the case that there is clear evidence that a majority of Scots simply do not want another vote at this time. Ms Sturgeon may think she is playing a fine opportunistic card, but I feel strongly that such tactics could well backfire on her - especially as the performance of the SNP in Government is coming under more and more scrutiny. The only person playing to their party faithful and screwing the country over in the process is Ms Sturgeon.
I shudder to think of the damage to long term investment in Scotland for the next few years
r11co said:
I have mentioned this incident a few times in previous iterations of this thread, but it bears repeating. The date was 15th September 2014, it was late afternoon and I had parked up in front of my local high street Bank of Scotland branch to pop in and sort a couple of transactions. I had come straight from work and was wearing suit/shirt/tie. I had parked behind a Rover 200 saloon (R8 model) adorned with enough saltires/Yes roundels/Bairns not Bombs stickers to make abundantely clear the political persuasion of the owner, who happened to be on the pavement proudly wearing his tartan and official 'Yes Scotland' id badge and was asking every passer-by if they would be 'voting yes to free Scotland from the tyranny of the Red Tories' (exact words).
I avoided his approaches on the way into the bank, but was accosted on the way out. When I politely refused to answer his question replying, 'that will be between me and the ballot box, thanks!' his reply was a very loud 'So, you'll be one of those fking Tories, then!?'.
He didn't even use the Cameron euphamisism - full on f-word in a packed high-street busy with families with young children.
First and last time I've been sworn at in a public place by a complete stranger who judged me by nothing more than my attire and that I didn't want to join in in his conformation bias.
not going to condone that but there is a few bad apples, some are more of a comedy value though. Would say thats the esception as opposed to the ruleI avoided his approaches on the way into the bank, but was accosted on the way out. When I politely refused to answer his question replying, 'that will be between me and the ballot box, thanks!' his reply was a very loud 'So, you'll be one of those f
king Tories, then!?'.He didn't even use the Cameron euphamisism - full on f-word in a packed high-street busy with families with young children.
First and last time I've been sworn at in a public place by a complete stranger who judged me by nothing more than my attire and that I didn't want to join in in his conformation bias.
marshal_alan said:
someone asked a few pages back why nationalists dont post on this thread, okay i'll tell you why. Now I joined pistonheads as I believed it was a place for petrolheads to hang out in the virtual world of the internet, find like minded people and as a marshal discuss motorsport and how wet and cold it was at Knockhill on any particular sunday in july. I am also a strong believer in independence for Scotland, i rarely post on this topic as it is just an invitation for personal abuse
I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
And you can't see that nationalists do just the same and worse? I doubt any unionists found anything about the 2014 referendum "joyous". The hatred coming from nationalists has to be seen to be believed. If I see someone with a yes badge I see someone with no respect for the democratic wishes of over 2,000,000 people, someone who thinks independence is more important than the NHS, schools, the police and the financial stability of this country. Someone who supports a party who lie and lie to try and achieve their aims and who have utterly divided Scotland. Who's fault is it we are now defined as Unionists or Nationalists? So while nobody should be treated the way you say you were, the SNP are the ones who have stirred up this hatred not the Unionists.I was involved in the campaign for indy ref in 2014 as well as westminster 2015 and holyrood and 2016 and far too many unionists seem to think common rules of respecting your fellow human beings goes out of the window when it comes to politics, i have been spat on, punched and verbally assaulted on the streets and TBH the language on thios topic is nothing short of deplorable, right you guys dont like the SNP or the idea of independence but what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything. It is almost like those responsible cannot hold their emotions, they are as tight as bowstrings
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
Some Scottish guys comments on a news article link I was reading, most of his comments were England bashing and how much better Scotland will be "under EU protection"...... almighty face palm comes to mind. Saying that most of the comments were stupid and it reminds me why I should not read comments.
SilverSixer said:
I'd say that the will of the people of Scotland to remain in the EU is quite clear, and that if a separate vote for Scotland only were held today on Leave/Remain (EU) the result would be pretty much the same as the UK referendum was in Scotland. The fact the Scotland was 62% in favour of EU membership is a perfectly valid thing to take notice of and act upon.
This garbage needs nailed. Every single time it comes up. Again and again.Scotland was not asked about Scotland staying in the EU. Scotland is not in the EU. The UK was asked about the UK staying in the EU. And on that question, should the UK leave or remain in the EU, 62% of Scots said leave.
Manipulating that result to claim a 'cast iron mandate' for another referendum is pure SNP scummery.
Phud said:
I suggest you look at the SNP manifesto for 2016 as it does not say anything about a second referendum and the knowledge of the EU referendum was widespread.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages...
I posted a line from the above on the last volume but it warrants a new audience.https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages...
SNP Liars said:
Making sure Scottish education is world class – for all our young
people – will be the main mission of the next SNP Government.
people – will be the main mission of the next SNP Government.
marshal_alan said:
what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything.
When a tiny minority repeatedly attempts to destroy your country you can probably expect a bit of backlash from the huge majority.In many places around the world that backlash would be somewhat more direct than a few bleeps on a messageboard. Think yourself lucky we're not touring through your town on the back of Toyota pick-ups.
technodup said:
his garbage needs nailed. Every single time it comes up. Again and again.
Scotland was not asked about Scotland staying in the EU. Scotland is not in the EU. The UK was asked about the UK staying in the EU.
Even high-ranking SNP members agree with this.Scotland was not asked about Scotland staying in the EU. Scotland is not in the EU. The UK was asked about the UK staying in the EU.
marshal_alan said:
as for the Yes movement, the only way I can describe it is a fusion of punk and politics, the values of pun such as an individuality in terns of dress, tattoos, piercings, people all standing together, comradeship, loyalty. You see soeone with a Yes badge on their jacket or car and you know you have a kindred spirit, people greet each other like old friends knowing you share the same values. i have done marches and demos with over 8,000 people and it is a carnival atmosphere (despite the provocation we get). People from all races, religions, ages the lot all march for their beliefs. no punches are ever thrown despite policing that was more akin to football hooligans than political activists. We march out of frienship and belief, not to look for a fight. It is something special
thats my views
It's interesting you paint the Yes movement as some sort of peace loving brotherhood whilst everything I see coming from the SNP is bile and lies leading to division and anger. Rather than seeing "a fusion of punk and politics" I see Yes supporters as being variously ignorant/naive/bigoted or in it for some other ulterior motive. I'll tell you why I think there aren't more independence supporters posting on this thread, I think it's because it's clear that the regular level of SNP misinformation, half truths and downright lies peddled elsewhere on the internet gets called out every single time and when the poster is asked to cite facts to support their stance they simply can't leading to some flouncing off complaining about people's attitudes. thats my views
technodup said:
Scotland was not asked about Scotland staying in the EU. Scotland is not in the EU. The UK was asked about the UK staying in the EU. And on that question, should the UK leave or remain in the EU, 62% of Scots said leave.
Yet if you were to use this graphic you'll (correctly) be told by the nationalists that it's irrelevant because it was a vote for Scotland... 
marshal_alan said:
not going to condone that but there is a few bad apples, some are more of a comedy value though. Would say thats the esception as opposed to the rule
Alan, honestly, and I don't mean to have a pop or anything - we have more in common probably than things that separate us outside this subject - but when you put yourself in my shoes it's as equally frustrating listening to wholly emotional or blinkered views rather than logic and reason; the worlds in a mess due to partisan thinking and historical baggage that has gone and passed, independence isn't for the good of Scotland, it's for the good of the politicians, none of whom are any better than the other. I can assure you that everything you may have suffered has been suffered on the other side of the fence; have a think on that. 'Group think' - "is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome." is why you feel kindred spirit. Not facts and a wish for the betterment of Scotland.
andymadmak said:
SilverSixer said:
Scotland elected an SNP government, you can hardly blame that government for implementing its manifesto.
And the UK elected a Conservative Government which had a clear manifesto pledge to offer an in/out Referendum on EU membership - you can hardly blame that Government for implementing its manifesto.........technodup said:
Phud said:
I suggest you look at the SNP manifesto for 2016 as it does not say anything about a second referendum and the knowledge of the EU referendum was widespread.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages...
I posted a line from the above on the last volume but it warrants a new audience.https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages...
SNP Liars said:
Making sure Scottish education is world class – for all our young
people – will be the main mission of the next SNP Government.
people – will be the main mission of the next SNP Government.
marshal_alan said:
what gives anyone the right to use some of the terms used to describe people who do not share your views. I have never seen the "censored" emotion used as much on anything on the internet, now as a small child I was told that swearing is a lack of vocabulary but the hatred that comes from posts on here is beyond anything.
When a tiny minority repeatedly attempts to destroy your country you can probably expect a bit of backlash from the huge majority.In many places around the world that backlash would be somewhat more direct than a few bleeps on a messageboard. Think yourself lucky we're not touring through your town on the back of Toyota pick-ups.
The manifesto specifically included the provision of a new indyref in the event of change of circumstances such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against it's will.
To have had a Holyrood majority in the last parliament and almost there again after 10 years in power - in a system specifically designed to avoid majority rule - and to send 56 of Scotland's 59 MPS to Westminster rather suggests that the tiny minority and massive majority you speak of are figments of your imagination.
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