Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Strocky said:
No 'confidence and supply' agreement is in place either, meaning each party stands on its own manifesto pledges, thus if the s.30 vote passes with the vote of the SNP and the Scottish Greens it will be on the back of one party willfully breaking its manifesto promise.
technodup said:
And you had one in 2014.
If she had known in 2011 it was to be an annual f
king event she wouldn't have said it.
There's no scandal in what Ruth Davidson said - in fact her words are a very precise reminder of what democracy is all about. When the SNP chose to run a minority government rather than enter into a formal coalition or confidence and supply arrangement with the Scottish Greens or any other party for that matter (for reasons known only to them) the position became different from what she speculated about.If she had known in 2011 it was to be an annual f
king event she wouldn't have said it.r11co said:
No coalition though! Why? Because there is a fundamental issue that will divide the SNP and the Greens and it is the reason Sturgeon is in such a hurry to have the s.30 debate, and it has nothing to do with Brexit.
No 'confidence and supply' agreement is in place either, meaning each party stands on its own manifesto pledges, thus if the s.30 vote passes with the vote of the SNP and the Scottish Greens it will be on the back of one party willfully breaking its manifesto promise.
"In assessing public appetite for a second referendum we will respect new kinds of citizen-led initiatives - for example, a call for a referendum signed by up to 1 million people on the electoral register."No 'confidence and supply' agreement is in place either, meaning each party stands on its own manifesto pledges, thus if the s.30 vote passes with the vote of the SNP and the Scottish Greens it will be on the back of one party willfully breaking its manifesto promise.
It clearly states "for example"
Given that recent polls have shown that 50% would want an referendum in two years time as we exit the EU, I don't think it's disegenious of the Scottish Greens (a genuinely automous party unlike the Unionist cabal in Holyrood) who are virulently pro EU would want to support a position to keep Scotland in the EU
The Tories only last week tried to spin round a manifesto commitment only to backtrack when they realised the amount of floating voters it would cost them, I don't think the Scottish Greens would get the same backlash somehow
Sometimes politics is unfair, like in 1979 when the dead voted for the status quo in the Devolution Ref
At least you've the good grace to recognise the governing party's commitment to sticking to their own manifesto policy re Brexit
Strocky said:
How many years in annual?
Take your time
I wouldn't expect a nat to understand exaggeration for effect.Take your time
Now explain how the manifesto commitment based on a material change i.e. 'dragged out the EU against our will' can be the basis for a new referendum when the SNP are using possibly 400000 remainers including Jim Sillars and Ruth Davidson to support and prove their 'cast iron mandate'?
I'm not sure who is being sold the biggest sack of s
t here. Unionists or Yessers. We can see the gaping flaws, Yessers seemingly cannot. There will be a load of unhappy folk if she a) stes it or b)loses it.I can't see any other outcome.
Strocky said:
.... (a genuinely automous party unlike the Unionist cabal in Holyrood) who are virulently pro EU would want to support a position to keep Scotland in the EU
The Tories only last week tried to spin round a manifesto commitment only to backtrack when they realised the amount of floating voters it would cost them, I don't think the Scottish Greens would get the same backlash somehow
Sometimes politics is unfair, like in 1979 when the dead voted for the status quo in the Devolution Ref
At least you've the good grace to recognise the governing party's commitment to sticking to their own manifesto policy re Brexit
Scottish education working hard again?The Tories only last week tried to spin round a manifesto commitment only to backtrack when they realised the amount of floating voters it would cost them, I don't think the Scottish Greens would get the same backlash somehow
Sometimes politics is unfair, like in 1979 when the dead voted for the status quo in the Devolution Ref
At least you've the good grace to recognise the governing party's commitment to sticking to their own manifesto policy re Brexit
Strocky said:
"In assessing public appetite for a second referendum we will respect new kinds of citizen-led initiatives - for example, a call for a referendum signed by up to 1 million people on the electoral register."
It clearly states "for example"
Patrick Harvie: Scottish public should have power to propose second independence referendum.It clearly states "for example"
Scottish Greens: Scotland’s constitutional future should be in the people’s hands.
An exemplar they documented in their manifesto (although it has now mysteriously disappeared from the .pdf archive version on their website, along with the page numbers - suspiciously) and were willing to restate repeatedly over an eight month period, even going so far as to correct one of their spokespersons officially when they made the mistake of referring to a 100,000 signature petition rather than the 1,000,000 signatories requirement.
Duplicitousness is something they must be learning from their mentors though.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 22 March 21:33
NoNeed said:
Strocky said:
technodup said:
And you had one in 2014.
If she had known in 2011 it was to be an annual fking event she wouldn't have said it.
How many years in annual?If she had known in 2011 it was to be an annual f
king event she wouldn't have said it.Take your time
Take your time.
Blame Cameron, Brexit & May for the SNP's opportunism
Strocky said:
Was it in a manifesto commitment? As that appears to be the main bone of contention for some
Blame Cameron, Brexit & May for the SNP's opportunism
NOBlame Cameron, Brexit & May for the SNP's opportunism
I blame the SNP for SNP actions. They lied when they said once in a generation as they knew they had no intention of waiting for a second referendum if they lost the first, and they lied when they signed the Edinburgh agreement.
Liars and scum.
technodup said:
Strocky said:
How many years in annual?
Take your time
I wouldn't expect a nat to understand exaggeration for effect.Take your time
Now explain how the manifesto commitment based on a material change i.e. 'dragged out the EU against our will' can be the basis for a new referendum when the SNP are using possibly 400000 remainers including Jim Sillars and Ruth Davidson to support and prove their 'cast iron mandate'?
I'm not sure who is being sold the biggest sack of s
t here. Unionists or Yessers. We can see the gaping flaws, Yessers seemingly cannot. There will be a load of unhappy folk if she a) stes it or b)loses it.I can't see any other outcome.
On the flip side being out of the EU opens up 180,000 EU Scottish residents to have a better look at the question after being misled the last time
It also opens up previous No voters who would now vote YES solely down to Brexit (like the IT contractor we had in last week)
NoNeed said:
Strocky said:
Was it in a manifesto commitment? As that appears to be the main bone of contention for some
Blame Cameron, Brexit & May for the SNP's opportunism
NOBlame Cameron, Brexit & May for the SNP's opportunism
I blame the SNP for SNP actions. They lied when they said once in a generation as they knew they had no intention of waiting for a second referendum if they lost the first, and they lied when they signed the Edinburgh agreement.
Liars and scum.
No, they definitely said they wanted a referendum every time they disagreed with a U.K. democratic decision. Didn't hear anything about once in a generation.
I mean, we all LOVED the last one right? It was one of the best political events of our lifetime. Such friendly banter and new friends. And of course all the polite debate was a revelation.
I mean, we all LOVED the last one right? It was one of the best political events of our lifetime. Such friendly banter and new friends. And of course all the polite debate was a revelation.
Strocky said:
technodup said:
Strocky said:
How many years in annual?
Take your time
I wouldn't expect a nat to understand exaggeration for effect.Take your time
Now explain how the manifesto commitment based on a material change i.e. 'dragged out the EU against our will' can be the basis for a new referendum when the SNP are using possibly 400000 remainers including Jim Sillars and Ruth Davidson to support and prove their 'cast iron mandate'?
I'm not sure who is being sold the biggest sack of s
t here. Unionists or Yessers. We can see the gaping flaws, Yessers seemingly cannot. There will be a load of unhappy folk if she a) stes it or b)loses it.I can't see any other outcome.
On the flip side being out of the EU opens up 180,000 EU Scottish residents to have a better look at the question after being misled the last time
It also opens up previous No voters who would now vote YES solely down to Brexit (like the IT contractor we had in last week)
The SNP are n an odd position as they now have to appeal to a very fractured voting populace, it's not as simple as NO = Exit, YES= Remain.
Also financially I know a lot of folk who were swing vote s to YES Last time are now NO due to the economic climate that an independent Scotland would develop into as we would be out of UK AND EU if we go independent and would have horrifying interest and taxation levels with massive public sector job losses and many losing their homes due to increased inflation.
Strocky said:
As a Unionist that's not really your problem and probably good news for your cause, although I'm surprised at Ruth voting SNP last year
I'll decide what my problem is, and right now it's people like you and more particularly stumpy sturgeon deliberately misrepresenting stats to claim legitimacy for another referendum.Ruth voted Remain. Doesn't want independence. AND is one of the filthy Tory scum to be derided at every opportunity. BUT Sturgeon is clinging to Ruth's remain vote for all it's worth. 62%!
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