Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[ianrb]

Strocky said:

Has the section 30 order been accepted already?

Splendid, let the campaigning commence, should be a cakewalk this time for Indy, what with all the tired snowflake anti democratic unionists, probably won't get out of bed on ballot day, the poor dears

Wrong on every point.

[NoNeed]

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Another Scottish independence referendum should not be allowed to happen”.

Government responded:

The UK Government is clear that now is not the time for a second independence referendum.

The UK needs to work together, putting all our energies into ensuring we get the right deal for the UK and for Scotland in our negotiations with the EU.

In 2014, the Scottish people decided in a legal, fair and decisive referendum to remain a strong part of the UK. The Edinburgh Agreement of 2012 committed both the UK and Scottish Governments to respecting the outcome of the Scottish referendum. Calling for a second referendum is creating damaging uncertainty for the economy, and most people in Scotland do not want the country to be plunged into another divisive campaign. All our focus should be on our negotiations with the EU and working together to get the right deal for Scotland and the right deal for the UK. It would be unfair to the people of Scotland to ask them to make a crucial decision without knowing what our future partnership with the EU will be or what the alternative for an independent Scotland would look like.

As the Prime Minister has set out, we will strengthen the Union of the four nations that comprise our United Kingdom. We will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking account of the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK. When it comes to the powers that we will take back from Europe, we will consult fully on which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be passed on to the Devolved Administrations.

This will be an opportunity to determine the level best placed to take decisions on these issues, ensuring power sits closer to the people of the UK than ever before. It is the expectation of the Government that the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will see a significant increase in their decision-making power as a result of this process.

Scotland Office

[kowalski655]

Shame they didn't also mention that the last one was meant to last a fking generation!

[paulrockliffe]

DrDeAtH said:

MikeT66 said:

Sturgeon signs independence vote request:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Shame it wasn't her resignation....

It pretty much was wasn't it? When TM sorts out Brexit and lets her off her leash the clock will start ticking down to her complete failure and inevitable departure. See Salmond for details.

[Silverbullet767]

kowalski655 said:

Shame they didn't also mention that the last one was meant to last a fking generation!

Don't think that was in the Edinburgh Agreement, it should be!

[r11co]

Strocky said:

what with all the tired snowflake anti democratic unionists

I credited you with some independent thinking (no pun intended), but it appears you have had the same irony by-pass as all the other rabid SNats.

[johnxjsc1985]

I think she just wants a date in the diary even after Brexit happens so what about 2032 that should be almost a generation after the last one.
I think she is doing Scotland's image a great deal of harm.

[powerstroke]

DrDeAtH said:

MikeT66 said:

Sturgeon signs independence vote request:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Shame it wasn't her resignation....

Maybe a political suicide note !!

[r11co]

powerstroke said:

Maybe a political suicide note !!

It was just more playground politics by the SNP. Little kid copying the big kid!

Theresa May writes a letter to the European Union requesting that Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty be invoked to begin the process of the UK leaving the European union - a legal requirement of the process, so Nicola Sturgeon writes a letter to Theresa May in the same week asking for the powers to be granted under Section 30 of the Scotland Act for the Scottish government to hold a constitutional referendum - a purely symbolic gesture with no legal underpinning (and before a SNat kicks off - a vote in the Scottish Parliament on constitutional matters has no legal weight).

Her sycophants will be nodding and grinning of course.

Herein lies the problem for Sturgeon and the SNP now - they are past the point of believing their own hype and are playing only towards their established audience. The rush to have another referendum should be treated with maximum suspicion as it smacks of utter desperation and makes no rational sense.

If the SNP really wanted to make independence 'inevitable' they could make a statement that they are going to park the idea of a referendum (thus regaining the respect of many 'a vote for the SNP is not a vote for independence' voters), state clearly that they are going to use every power they have to demonstrate that they are a more competent government than the 'shambles at Westminster' (a surefire vote-winner if they can pull it off), wait for Brexit to go pear-shaped (as they claim it will) and then sail to victory easily in 2025 or so on a platform of rejoining the EU. What's stopping them.......?

Could it be that they have no confidence in themselves to be able to govern competently, ergo they do not believe they can hang on to even minority government status past 2020? Could it be that their Brexit pronouncements of doom and gloom are being overstated? Could it also be that they have no intention of rejoining the EU and don't want to have to commit to it to gain 'independence'.

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 14:52

[wobert]

Drip, drip, drip.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

It's like a merry-go-round you can never get off.

I wonder if the media will get bored of the constant winge-ing from the sidelines

[fluffnik]

Ridgemont said:

Sooner or later the U.K. will have to embrace federalism.

Or just cease to be, which would be better for all.

[fluffnik]

NoNeed said:

The UK needs to work together, putting all our energies into ensuring we get the right deal for the UK and for Scotland in our negotiations with the EU.

...except, the best deal for Scotland is being an independent member of the EU.

Survation said:

Who do you think should have the right to decide if there should be a referendum in Scotland that would allow the people of Scotland to choose between Brexit and independence? Should it be...

The Scottish Parliament: 61%
The Westminster Parliament: 39%

[NoNeed]

fluffnik said:

NoNeed said:

The UK needs to work together, putting all our energies into ensuring we get the right deal for the UK and for Scotland in our negotiations with the EU.

...except, the best deal for Scotland is being an independent member of the EU.

You can't be independent and a member of the EU, only a right idiot would think you can.

[NoNeed]

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

...except, the best deal for Scotland is being an independent member of the EU.

Even Nicola Sturgeon doesn't believe that anymore (if she ever did).

Nanook said:

(to fluffnik)
If this is to be a sensible debate, please, stop confusing your opinion with fact.

The rabid transcendental SNats are now commenting in news reports and social media to the effect that the SNP's true goal is to be out of the UK and out of the EU and Nicola is just a canny politician using the remainers vote to swell support for independence, so either the SNP is as divided over Europe as every other party or you didn't get the memo, fluff.

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 17:01

[fluffnik]

Nanook said:

fluffnik said:

Or just cease to be, which would be better for all.

If this is to be a sensible debate, please, stop confusing your opinion with fact.

Many thanks.

The UK is fd, there is no unity.

So, why keep the Union?

Federalism would not work if England remained unitary, it's too much bigger than the other nations.

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

The UK is fked, there is no unity.

That's a great narrative, but it isn't true. There's been political and ideological disagreement within the UK for as long as I can remember, and a look at any other nation reveals similar.

Some people though want to stir that up to tribal levels to push their seperatist agenda and leverage power for themselves. You just lack the wherewithal to realise you are a willing pawn in their game, but your mindless soundbites tell all.

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 17:14

[fluffnik]

NoNeed said:

fluffnik said:

...except, the best deal for Scotland is being an independent member of the EU.

You can't be independent and a member of the EU, only a right idiot would think you can.

Only a right idiot would think that EU members are anything other than independent.

(It's Freedom Day in Malta today. )

[TheRainMaker]

fluffnik said:

The UK is fd, there is no unity.

Maybe in your world, the rest of us are getting on just fine thanks.

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

Only a right idiot would think that EU members are anything other than independent.

Ask yourself why there's a need for a 'great repeal bill' in the UK parliament now that A.50 has been invoked. It is not just a symbolic gesture, y'know.

Oh, and maybe consult a few Greeks too. Come the end of next month another tranche of Greece's sovereign assets will be transferred to EU ownership in lieu of debt (to add to the €billions that have already changed ownership) with the Greek Government powerless to stop it. Is that your definition of independence and self-determination?

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 17:26