Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[fluffnik]

Nanook said:

There's plenty of unity, amongst those of us intelligent enough not to discriminate on the grounds of where a person was born.

You mean like the Scottish Government which extended the franchise to EU citizens, unlike the xenophobic UK?

[TheRainMaker]

fluffnik said:

Nanook said:

There's plenty of unity, amongst those of us intelligent enough not to discriminate on the grounds of where a person was born.

You mean like the Scottish Government which extended the franchise to EU citizens, unlike the xenophobic UK?

The same Scottish Government who won't let students from Wales, England or Northern Ireland study for free at Scottish University's.

But the rest of the EU is fine...

[fluffnik]

Nanook said:

fluffnik said:

You mean like the Scottish Government which extended the franchise to EU citizens, unlike the xenophobic UK?

Can you not see your own hypocrisy?

Neither the Scottish Government nor the SNP care where you were born, if you want to make your life here, you can be Scottish.

That's one of the things I like about them.

I don't think the UK is in any way fit for purpose, and with a convenient association like the EU available, it's just a pointless and expensive waste of space.

[Alpacaman]

fluffnik said:

Neither the Scottish Government nor the SNP care where you were born, if you want to make your life here, you can be Scottish.

The problem you have is that 55% of us would much prefer to be British. And it is clear that it matters very much to many SNP supporters where you are born, in particular if you were born south of some random line on a map.

[TheRainMaker]

fluffing, don't take this wrong way, but I just had a look at your profile, are you on the wind up?

[NRS]

fluffnik said:

Nanook said:

fluffnik said:

You mean like the Scottish Government which extended the franchise to EU citizens, unlike the xenophobic UK?

Can you not see your own hypocrisy?

Neither the Scottish Government nor the SNP care where you were born, if you want to make your life here, you can be Scottish.

That's one of the things I like about them.

I don't think the UK is in any way fit for purpose, and with a convenient association like the EU available, it's just a pointless and expensive waste of space.

Do you know I almost want independence to happen so people like you can answer for the promises you tell to try and get votes (even when clearly wrong), and then face the mess your decisions would make. The only problem is those against it who would get screwed over.

Alpacaman said:

fluffnik said:

Neither the Scottish Government nor the SNP care where you were born, if you want to make your life here, you can be Scottish.

The problem you have is that 55% of us would much prefer to be British. And it is clear that it matters very much to many SNP supporters where you are born, in particular if you were born south of some random line on a map.

THATS NOT RESPECTING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.... Oh, sorry, you meant the old referendum? That one doesn't count as some time passed since then. But the Scottish elections where the SNP have gone from "a vote for us doesn't mean independence" to "we'll push independence at all costs" is perfectly representative of the will of voters.

[s2art]

fluffnik said:

Neither the Scottish Government nor the SNP care where you were born, if you want to make your life here, you can be Scottish.

That's one of the things I like about them.

.

And that is the stated policy for all of the UK once we exit the EU. So what is the difference?

[johnxjsc1985]

fluffnik said:

Only a right idiot would think that EU members are anything other than independent.

(It's Freedom Day in Malta today. )

Have you ever heard about a Country called Greece.

[fluffnik]

TheRainMaker said:

fluffing, don't take this wrong way, but I just had a look at your profile, are you on the wind up?

I also carry a UKofGB&NI passport, for similar administrative reasons.

[r11co]

fluffnik said:

I also carry a UKofGB&NI passport, for similar administrative reasons.

That's not a compliant GB sticker, so if you are going to be non-compliant you might as well stick to your priciples and either go without or use some Scottish mock-up.

[r11co]

NRS said:

But the Scottish elections where the SNP have gone from "a vote for us doesn't mean independence" to "we'll push independence at all costs" is perfectly representative of the will of voters.

You will notice they don't talk about the will of the Scottish people anymore (because they know it isn't). They talk about the will of the Scottish PARLIAMENT - a will determined by creative interpretation of their manifesto by one party supported by the smallest party in the same parliament - a party that have totally breached one of their manifesto pledges. Not the will of the people then, just the will of some power-hungry politicians.

SNats like to bump their gums about the democratic deficit at Westminster, yet the SNP have engineered that same democratic deficit in Holyrood to push their agenda, but then again the SNP believe their own hype. After all, it was Alex Salmond who recently said that the SNP had more voters than UKIP (he was only wrong by about 2 million).

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 18:55

[GoneAnon]

r11co said:

You will notice they don't talk about the will of the Scottish people anymore (because they know it isn't). They talk about the will of the Scottish PARLIAMENT - a will determined by creative interpretation of their manifesto by one party supported by the smallest party in the same parliament - a party that have totally breached one of their manifesto pledges. Not the will of the people then, just the will of some power-hungry politicians.

SNats like to bump their gums about the democratic deficit at Westminster, yet the SNP have engineered that same democratic deficit in Holyrood to push their agenda, but then again the SNP believe their own hype. After all, it was Alex Salmond who recently said that the SNP had more voters than UKIP (he was only wrong by about 2 million).

Edited by r11co on Friday 31st March 18:55

You do like your "facts" even when you just make them up!

1) The manifesto said in black and white that they reserved the right to have another referendum if Scotland was taken out of the EU against its will. So no creative interpretation then.
2) Willie Rennie and the Liberals have the honour of being the smallest party with just 5 seats. But, according to you, their position counts more than the Greens (6) - presumably because they are pro-unio?
3) SNP have 54 of the 59 seats and are supported by 2 more currently suspended members but Scotland's views are over-ridden at every turn - with 59 out of 650 it cannot be any other way. That is democratic in what way?
4) I don't know about UKIP votes or care enough to go researching but, given that the SNP only stood in Scotland, it's surely fair to compare the votes in comparable seats?

Your own Maggie Thatcher once said all Scotland had to do to become independent was to send a majority of SNP MPs to Westminster. What are your thoughts on that position?

[Big Rod]

TheRainMaker said:

fluffnik said:

The UK is fd, there is no unity.

Maybe in your world, the rest of us are getting on just fine thanks.

Right there with ya!

All peachy here. (Except for the unnecessary noise!)

[ellroy]

Point 3 in exactly the way to always should be. By majority vote of those eligible.

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK voted to leave the EU. You're still part of the Union and would abide by that decision if you believed in democracy. But you don't really do you, because it's not fair. Sickening hypocrisy.

By the way the Green's manifesto made specific, unwashy, stipulations about what they would need to support another referendum. They've not been met. And yet? Oh, yes power grabbing ego wkery. It's a fking disgrace that these two parties claim to represent the Scots. Shameful, truly shameful.

[Big Rod]

ellroy said:

Point 3 in exactly the way to always should be. By majority vote of those eligible.

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK voted to leave the EU. You're still part of the Union and would abide by that decision if you believed in democracy. But you don't really do you, because it's not fair. Sickening hypocrisy.

By the way the Green's manifesto made specific, unwashy, stipulations about what they would need to support another referendum. They've not been met. And yet? Oh, yes power grabbing ego wkery. It's a fking disgrace that these two parties claim to represent the Scots. Shameful, truly shameful.

Also, I'm pretty sure point 1 actually said something along the lines of 'material change' which, while I guess everything's open to interpretation, I can't see any actual 'material change' to the subject of the first neverendum. We voted 'No' to being an independent country.

Nothing further to be discussed in my mind.

[Strocky]

r11co said:

I credited you with some independent thinking (no pun intended), but it appears you have had the same irony by-pass as all the other rabid SNats.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me, I'm touched.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek, albeit poking fun at the latest strategy from Wee Ruth & Co that's changed 2 months ago from only 25% want another Referendum (based on one poll) whilst ignoring that nearly 50% wanted one just as Brexit was finalised

Now as the polling is averaging 45/47% to 53/55% against, the latest claim is a majority don't want one

Let's be fair, both sides are at it with the spin, however at least the SNP's spin is consistent and based on an election result rather than whatever poll takes the Tories fancy on a particular day while ignoring what page 2 of the poll states

[BlackLabel]

John Nicolson clears things up for us.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vC00bi7w32c

[hidetheelephants]

Strocky said:

... least the SNP's spin is consistent...

They can't even decide if they want to be in the EU, EEA/EFTA or going it alone; consistently opportunist more like.

[FN2TypeR]

ellroy said:

Point 3 in exactly the way to always should be. By majority vote of those eligible.

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK voted to leave the EU. You're still part of the Union and would abide by that decision if you believed in democracy. But you don't really do you, because it's not fair. Sickening hypocrisy.

By the way the Green's manifesto made specific, unwashy, stipulations about what they would need to support another referendum. They've not been met. And yet? Oh, yes power grabbing ego wkery. It's a fking disgrace that these two parties claim to represent the Scots. Shameful, truly shameful.

Don't worry, if the SNP are successful in gaining a second referendum they will drop the Greens post haste and revive their interest in fracking once the useful idiots have been cast aside.

A harsh lesson for the plucky underdog that would be king maker.

I will laugh.

[technodup]

fluffnik said:

I also carry a UKofGB&NI passport, for similar administrative reasons.

You carry a UK passport because like it or not you're fking British.

Suck it up.