US to ban electronic devices from flights
Discussion
El stovey said:
Sorry perhaps my post wasn't clear enough, 
In think you can't put a timer on it, as it isn't a bomb yet when you go through security. You have to turn it into a bomb on the flight by adding bits/mixing stuff etc. That's why it's a new threat. It doesn't look like a bomb as its just a laptop and other parts. It needs someone physically to turn it into a bomb during the flight.
If it was a bomb with a timer, then you'd just check it in but it would be recognisable as a bomb by security that the cases go through already,
Maybe. However, when you currently go through security the lap top has to be pulled out and run through in a separate box. I assume this is required to check it properly. If it is buried deep inside a suitcase, surrounded by other travellers paraphernalia, hair dryers, charging cable, couple of coat hangers, etc to, there is little chance of it being scrutinised properly. One would think.In think you can't put a timer on it, as it isn't a bomb yet when you go through security. You have to turn it into a bomb on the flight by adding bits/mixing stuff etc. That's why it's a new threat. It doesn't look like a bomb as its just a laptop and other parts. It needs someone physically to turn it into a bomb during the flight.
If it was a bomb with a timer, then you'd just check it in but it would be recognisable as a bomb by security that the cases go through already,
King Herald said:
Maybe. However, when you currently go through security the lap top has to be pulled out and run through in a separate box. I assume this is required to check it properly. If it is buried deep inside a suitcase, surrounded by other travellers paraphernalia, hair dryers, charging cable, couple of coat hangers, etc to, there is little chance of it being scrutinised properly. One would think.
Exactly El stovey said:
Ok the new bomb design is made up of components that individually don't look like a bomb, on their own they can't do anything. They just all loook like different everyday items.
In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
This entirely makes sense . The fact is, many Laptops can be upgraded with extra drives etc. Spaces which if not used for drives could contain other things . So possible to have a perfectly working laptop but still containing illicit materials. In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
This chasis can take at least 2 internal drives : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/defianceI...
Other chasis can have optional internal DVD drives as well, so potentially another opportunity for concealment.
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
Hosenbugler said:
This entirely makes sense . The fact is, many Laptops can be upgraded with extra drives etc. Spaces which if not used for drives could contain other things . So possible to have a perfectly working laptop but still containing illicit materials.
This chasis can take at least 2 internal drives : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/defianceI...
Other chasis can have optional internal DVD drives as well, so potentially another opportunity for concealment.
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
Okay....but couldn't the same thing be built of components hung togerther in a suitcase to look like a bunch random objects? I don't get this "all bombs need assembly on board" proposition. This chasis can take at least 2 internal drives : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/defianceI...
Other chasis can have optional internal DVD drives as well, so potentially another opportunity for concealment.
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
RBH58 said:
Hosenbugler said:
This entirely makes sense . The fact is, many Laptops can be upgraded with extra drives etc. Spaces which if not used for drives could contain other things . So possible to have a perfectly working laptop but still containing illicit materials.
This chasis can take at least 2 internal drives : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/defianceI...
Other chasis can have optional internal DVD drives as well, so potentially another opportunity for concealment.
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
Okay....but couldn't the same thing be built of components hung togerther in a suitcase to look like a bunch random objects? I don't get this "all bombs need assembly on board" proposition. This chasis can take at least 2 internal drives : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/defianceI...
Other chasis can have optional internal DVD drives as well, so potentially another opportunity for concealment.
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
Hosenbugler said:
Assembling a bomb onboard from seperate seemingly harmless components is not new , after all, its what the ban on fluids in hand luggage over a certain size was all about .
Because we all know that a couple of terrorists would never meet up in the bogs to mix together the contents of each persons four or five 100ml bottles of bomb mix into a couple of empty beer cans...... 
I've walked on board with probably half a litre of liquids or gels many times.
When I was working offshore I'd take all my deodorants, toothpastes, mouthwash etc in my carry on, as well as a plethora of electronics, iPad, two phones, chargers, headphones, connector cables, two hard drives etc.
Hard to believe any security check could sift quickly through that lot by X-ray and decide I was innocent. Or is it indeed all just a placebo?
When flying home from South Korea you have to wait after checking in your bags to see them passing by on a screen showing a conveyor. If you don't see your bags after a few minutes they have found a problem and you need to see them. I had to remove my lithium batteries from my DSLR and put them in my hand carry.
So the South Koreans policy was lithium batteries in the hold is bad. According to the current security approach it's now okay?
The only airport that has asked me to prove my tablet and laptop work is at Istanbul. So why not a similar approach to South Korea and Istanbuls security along with the more rigorous standards we have here?
I fly a lot so I'm all for making flying safe, but I'm stumped with this one on the benefits. Is it a targeted campaign by terrorists to ensure most security is around flying when they have other softer much easier targets to go for?
So the South Koreans policy was lithium batteries in the hold is bad. According to the current security approach it's now okay?
The only airport that has asked me to prove my tablet and laptop work is at Istanbul. So why not a similar approach to South Korea and Istanbuls security along with the more rigorous standards we have here?
I fly a lot so I'm all for making flying safe, but I'm stumped with this one on the benefits. Is it a targeted campaign by terrorists to ensure most security is around flying when they have other softer much easier targets to go for?
make it hard to blow up a plane , then why not wander into the airport with a wheel along bag full of bomb and let that off in the security line at rush hour ? kills more people and wrecks the airport for months
make it hard at airports then it will happen at a train station or shopping center imo
make it hard at airports then it will happen at a train station or shopping center imo
steveo3002 said:
make it hard to blow up a plane , then why not wander into the airport with a wheel along bag full of bomb and let that off in the security line at rush hour ? kills more people and wrecks the airport for months
make it hard at airports then it will happen at a train station or shopping center imo
Because the primary aim of terrorism is to get attention, and a plane blowing up gets more attention than pretty much anything.make it hard at airports then it will happen at a train station or shopping center imo
Hosenbugler said:
As has already been stated people cannot assemble seperate components when they are locked away in a hold. Either they are seperate or they are not. Any assemblage out of the ordinary is likely to be scrutinised prior to being boarded.
Sure.....but what if they don't need assembly? Jeeeez. Why is there this assumption that they need to be assembled like Pistols Scaramanga's gun? Put it onboard, disguised as something else or several "something elses". Why does it have to be assembled?Edited by RBH58 on Thursday 23 March 09:17
Uggers said:
When flying home from South Korea you have to wait after checking in your bags to see them passing by on a screen showing a conveyor. If you don't see your bags after a few minutes they have found a problem and you need to see them. I had to remove my lithium batteries from my DSLR and put them in my hand carry.
So the South Koreans policy was lithium batteries in the hold is bad. According to the current security approach it's now okay?
The only airport that has asked me to prove my tablet and laptop work is at Istanbul. So why not a similar approach to South Korea and Istanbuls security along with the more rigorous standards we have here?
I fly a lot so I'm all for making flying safe, but I'm stumped with this one on the benefits. Is it a targeted campaign by terrorists to ensure most security is around flying when they have other softer much easier targets to go for?
Yep....all of a sudden a hold full of unsupervised lithium batteries is now...overnight...safe, So the South Koreans policy was lithium batteries in the hold is bad. According to the current security approach it's now okay?
The only airport that has asked me to prove my tablet and laptop work is at Istanbul. So why not a similar approach to South Korea and Istanbuls security along with the more rigorous standards we have here?
I fly a lot so I'm all for making flying safe, but I'm stumped with this one on the benefits. Is it a targeted campaign by terrorists to ensure most security is around flying when they have other softer much easier targets to go for?
RBH58 said:
Hosenbugler said:
As has already been stated people cannot assemble seperate components when they are locked away in a hold. Either they are seperate or they are not. Any assemblage out of the ordinary is likely to be scrutinised prior to being boarded.
Sure.....but what if they don't need assembly? Jeeeez. Why is there this assumption that they need to be assembled like Pistols Scaramanga's gun?The bits on their own don't blow up, the bits put together explode. Putting bits together and in the hold explode before the terrorist packs his suitcase.
This is why the laptops are being banned on certain flights. The intelligence service have got hold of plans of which the laptop is a central component of the bomb.
El stovey said:
Ok the new bomb design is made up of components that individually don't look like a bomb, on their own they can't do anything. They just all loook like different everyday items.
In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
Sounds like yet more BS along the same lines of the highly-suspect 'undetectable liquids' hysteria that ended up with the ludicrous ban on people carrying toothpaste and water onto planes which persists to this day.In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
The important part is the bit that goes 'Bang' - and it's very difficult to get this onto a plane as most of the suitable material for doing this can be detected with chemical tests at the security gate.
Mixing and matching bits of electronics to make the rest of the unit isn't going to matter much - If some fundamentalist nutjob can get a substantial amount of 'undetectable' explosive on board then you have a problem, full stop. If it's undetectable, then it'll be almost as dangerous in the hold as they can simply design a timer.
You might think that someone has identified a possible threat from some complicated scheme like that. You'd be wrong.
So far the only attack even vaguely related involved something that current security techniques can already detect, and that would work with a timer too.
As a security measure this is utter garbage.
As a way of applying pressure to certain air operators and routes it is highly effective.
So far the only attack even vaguely related involved something that current security techniques can already detect, and that would work with a timer too.
As a security measure this is utter garbage.
As a way of applying pressure to certain air operators and routes it is highly effective.
Lucas Ayde said:
If it's undetectable, then it'll be almost as dangerous in the hold as they can simply design a timer.
Ok one last time.It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
Anything that fills the cargo hold with lithium batteries for a benefit that is "highly debatable" is a dumb idea. This seems like a dumb idea.
I am far from convinced that this move increases passenger safety, I am deeply concerned that it may, in fact, be exposing even more passengers to even greater risks.
As a VERY frequent flyer, I am not happy about this move. It makes me feel less safe.
I am far from convinced that this move increases passenger safety, I am deeply concerned that it may, in fact, be exposing even more passengers to even greater risks.
As a VERY frequent flyer, I am not happy about this move. It makes me feel less safe.
El stovey said:
Ok one last time.
It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
Jeezzzz. One last time. Put it onboard ready to go. What's with your obsession that bombs have to be assembled immediately prior to detonation? It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
El stovey said:
Ok one last time.
It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
I think you've read too many spy novels. The dangerous bit is the *explosive* bit.It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
Luckily, pretty much all conventionally available explosives are detectable with relatively simple and quick chemical tests (this is why they 'swab' stuff at security, and checked bags are also tested in a number of ways before being loaded).
The notion of cannibalising bits of electronics from various different devices to make a deadly device is pure tosh. If you are able to get a 'useful' quantity of dangerous and undetectable explosive matter on board the aircraft in the first place - the explosive bit is what is needed to make the device do its job, remember - then it's pretty much game over.
And if your explosive component truly is undetectable, you'll just stuff it in the hold luggage with a suitably disguised (from the PoV of X-ray scans) timer and get the job done that way.
RBH58 said:
El stovey said:
Ok one last time.
It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
Jeezzzz. One last time. Put it onboard ready to go. What's with your obsession that bombs have to be assembled? It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
This device has separate components that explode when put together. There is no ready to go. It's separate parts or an explosion.
Youve completely missed the entire point of how this bomb is made and what the connection with the laptop is.
I can't keep explaining the same thing.
Lucas Ayde said:
El stovey said:
Ok one last time.
It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
I think you've read too many spy novels. The dangerous bit is the *explosive* bit.It explodes when the bits are put together. It doesn't have a timer.
You can't put it in the hold with a timer, as it will blow up in your face when you put it together.
You can't put a timer on the separate parts as nothing will happen.
Luckily, pretty much all conventionally available explosives are detectable with relatively simple and quick chemical tests (this is why they 'swab' stuff at security, and checked bags are also tested in a number of ways before being loaded).
The notion of cannibalising bits of electronics from various different devices to make a deadly device is pure tosh. If you are able to get a 'useful' quantity of dangerous and undetectable explosive matter on board the aircraft in the first place - the explosive bit is what is needed to make the device do its job, remember - then it's pretty much game over.
And if your explosive component truly is undetectable, you'll just stuff it in the hold luggage with a suitably disguised (from the PoV of X-ray scans) timer and get the job done that way.
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