US to ban electronic devices from flights

[RBH58]

Zod said:

We were told several years ago that security would require any electronic device to be switched on and demonstrated to be functioning normally. The only time I have ever experienced this was last week in Istanbul

Ha! Ditto. Me too....in Istanbul last Thursday!

You weren't the guy I saw last Wed night on PH in the Polat Club Lounge were you?

[Zod]

RBH58 said:

Zod said:

We were told several years ago that security would require any electronic device to be switched on and demonstrated to be functioning normally. The only time I have ever experienced this was last week in Istanbul

Ha! Ditto. Me too....in Istanbul last Thursday!

You weren't the guy I saw last Wed night on PH in the Polat Club Lounge were you?

Nope. I flew out on Monday night.

[RBH58]

An explanation?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp...

[IanH755]

Zod said:

This is untargeted and utterly stupid. If there was a real risk, the Israelis would have been all over it ages ago.

Zod said:

A device like an iPad or a Surface cannot be tampered with to the extend required to turn it into a bomb without leaving traces or rendering it inoperable.

So as a security and explosives expert you're saying that there is no way any of this is possible? It's good to know there are experts on this forum who are able to defeat the warped mind of a terrorist from behind their keyboard!

[loafer123]

RBH58 said:

An explanation?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp...

If that is the case, why have we done similar measures?

Either we do believe there is a risk or we have done Trump a big favour by legitimizing their action.

[Zod]

IanH755 said:

Zod said:

This is untargeted and utterly stupid. If there was a real risk, the Israelis would have been all over it ages ago.

Zod said:

A device like an iPad or a Surface cannot be tampered with to the extend required to turn it into a bomb without leaving traces or rendering it inoperable.

So as a security and explosives expert you're saying that there is no way any of this is possible? It's good to know there are experts on this forum who are able to defeat the warped mind of a terrorist from behind their keyboard!

Credulous fool. Have you ever seen inside an iPad?

[Murph7355]

Oceanic said:

Can you explain why not screening the laptops etc properly as hand luggage and putting them in the hold (inc all the lithium batteries this will include) would be a better signal and be safer?

I have no agenda, I just don't see the measure being any safer and possibly more dangerous.

Perhaps GT03Rob's post above is relevant.

Lack of ability to trust the processes for walk on but able to bolster them for check in?

babatunde said:

Kindle Paperwhite Battery 1420mAh
Amazon Fire 5th Gen 2980mAh

Iphone & Plus 2900mAh
Samsung S7 3,000mAh

Which ones shall we ban, if it looks like a dog and smells like a dog.....

Notice I didn't even need to go, Lenovo P2 5100mAh

Do you take the tin foil hat of prejudice off to sleep in or is it not that uncomfy?

If you can answer the questions I noted above then I might believe your Muslim Ban 3.0 theory. Otherwise it looks like your own bias is making you confuse (weak) correlation with causation.

[Shakermaker]

bristolracer said:

If I were an enterprising airline I'd install iPads in the back of seats and charge £10 an hour so your children can watch peppa pig on your annual to turkey. Program it to run a few trailers too just to encourage them.

EasyJet already offer a service such as this so sorry, you are too late. Not on all routes but its growing as I understand it.

Plus, how many long-haul carriers do not offer you in-flight entertainment these days with back-of-the-seat tv screens and 500 movies to choose from?

[anonymous-user]

Zod said:

IanH755 said:

Zod said:

This is untargeted and utterly stupid. If there was a real risk, the Israelis would have been all over it ages ago.

Zod said:

A device like an iPad or a Surface cannot be tampered with to the extend required to turn it into a bomb without leaving traces or rendering it inoperable.

So as a security and explosives expert you're saying that there is no way any of this is possible? It's good to know there are experts on this forum who are able to defeat the warped mind of a terrorist from behind their keyboard!

Credulous fool. Have you ever seen inside an iPad?

One of the easiest parts to remove on an ipad pro is the battery - easy relative to lots of the other parts, which are a right PITA, however not a major challenge for anyone who repairs smartphones. It is technically possible to replace one half of the battery with explosives, something like PETN. 10g would probably put a hole in the side of a plane, half an ipad pro battery is probably 20-30 grams.

So technically yes you could, however making a useable detonator would be difficult as PETN is very stable (as the shoe bomber found out).

Passenger profiling would be better, but it's costly and slower - when I used to fly El-Al to Israel I was profiled each time, removed from the queue and taken to another room for full examination of laptop, phones, cabin bag, trousers/belt/shoes off etc.

[moanthebairns]

Zod said:

More passenger profiling is required

Agreed, I mean come on, do we really need this on an easy jet flight to the canaries leaving from Glasgow. Where its filled full of white face, tight arsed scots going to get pissed for a week and burnt in the sun. Its inconceivable to think any Scot would turn his Aye-phone into a bomb, do you have any fking idea how dear these are. You'd still be paying the fking contract off in your demise

[Shakermaker]

bigandclever said:

Northern Munkee said:

CNN are suggesting the U.K. May join the US in the new procedures, it also suggests that they both have some credible intelligence to support this particular means of attack. Presumably it's either hiding an explosive in the device, or perhaps turning the battery into device placed somewhere vulnerable, maybe.

I doubt it has anything to do with a terror attack; it'll be because the CBP don't need permission to open your bags in the hold and automatically have the legal authority to inspect what they want, when they want ... so open up the bag, take an image of a laptop hard-disk, peruse at their leisure. You don't know it's been done and you don't need to be told. But let's not get all 'tin-foil hatty'

When I got home from NYC last year, I opened my suitcase to find a nice little note from the CBP/TSA explaining they had pulled my bag for an extra/random check.

Nothing was in there of any value for them to steal unless they wanted all my dirty clothes. But they had told me they had done it.

[hman]

I'm currently sat in departures at istanbul - UK bound on a BA flight....with my laptop!

BA guy at the desk said they had no official notification from their management about not bringing laptops into the UK as hand luggage from turkey and yet if you go to the BA website....

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/pu...


and link to the gov.uk website...

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/additional-...



they both say that you cannot travel with laptops...


:awaits bag to be put in hold as I board the plane!:

[anonymous-user]

Even Macs?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/b...

[andy_s]

hman said:

I'm currently sat in departures at istanbul - UK bound on a BA flight....with my laptop!

BA guy at the desk said they had no official notification from their management about not bringing laptops into the UK as hand luggage from turkey and yet if you go to the BA website....

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/pu...


and link to the gov.uk website...

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/additional-...



they both say that you cannot travel with laptops...


:awaits bag to be put in hold as I board the plane!:

From the 30th I believe, or thereabouts. It's not an immediate ban.

[anonymous-user]

Oceanic said:

babatunde said:

Call it what it is........It's Muslim ban 3.0

If there were a logical technical reason for the ban it would apply to all airlines.

Basically Trump administration is saying we don't want persons with a permanent tan in "our" country

Edited by babatunde on Tuesday 21st March 18:21

I concur, if they can't detect a bomb in a laptop at security how is asking people to put said "laptop bombs" in hold luggage any safer?


No mention of Lithium batteries either going in the hold! How is any of this safer?

Seems to me that the laptop bomb can't be recognised as a bomb in the first place, that's how it gets on the aircraft. When onboard, the terrorist has to alter or make the bomb with some jiggery pokery. If it's in he hold, he/she can't physically alter the device to turn it into a bomb (combining parts altering its state etc) to make it go off.

Eihther this or you lot are correct and the security services are all wrong or it's all Trumps plan to get one over the arabs,

[Oceanic]

ash73 said:

Very disappointed the UK has done this, as soon as we impose these restrictions the terrorists have won. I'd rather just take the risk and get on with life.

It does seem all the extra hassle and delays we have experienced at airports since 9/11 and the shoe bomber may have been pointless if this is a genuine threat, but as it is starting to emerge it looks like some form of sanctions or political nonsense from President Fart.

[anonymous-user]

ash73 said:

Very disappointed the UK has done this, as soon as we impose these restrictions the terrorists have won. I'd rather just take the risk and get on with life.

I wouldn't. I'd much rather intelligence services make it harder for terrorists to blow up aircraft. Plenty of improvised devices get found at uk airports and plenty of plots get stopped that don't make it into the public domain. If there is a sudden ban like this, it's due to credible evidence that devices and plots exist.

[Shakermaker]

ash73 said:

Very disappointed the UK has done this, as soon as we impose these restrictions the terrorists have won. I'd rather just take the risk and get on with life.

But it isn't on every flight. Nor is it even on any of the 10 most popular routes to the UK.

Huge fuss, minor impact.

[Puggit]

moanthebairns said:

Zod said:

More passenger profiling is required

Agreed, I mean come on, do we really need this on an easy jet flight to the canaries leaving from Glasgow. Where its filled full of white face, tight arsed scots going to get pissed for a week and burnt in the sun. Its inconceivable to think any Scot would turn his Aye-phone into a bomb, do you have any fking idea how dear these are. You'd still be paying the fking contract off in your demise

And this is why the left call profiling racist

Get on with giving muslims a harder time at the airport instead of one size fits all restrictions...

[bigandclever]

Shakermaker said:

bigandclever said:

Northern Munkee said:

CNN are suggesting the U.K. May join the US in the new procedures, it also suggests that they both have some credible intelligence to support this particular means of attack. Presumably it's either hiding an explosive in the device, or perhaps turning the battery into device placed somewhere vulnerable, maybe.

I doubt it has anything to do with a terror attack; it'll be because the CBP don't need permission to open your bags in the hold and automatically have the legal authority to inspect what they want, when they want ... so open up the bag, take an image of a laptop hard-disk, peruse at their leisure. You don't know it's been done and you don't need to be told. But let's not get all 'tin-foil hatty'

When I got home from NYC last year, I opened my suitcase to find a nice little note from the CBP/TSA explaining they had pulled my bag for an extra/random check.

Nothing was in there of any value for them to steal unless they wanted all my dirty clothes. But they had told me they had done it.

The way it was explained to me was the the TSA have the authority to check bags but they have to leave a notice that they've done so. The CBP, who are different to the TSA in all sorts of ways, also have the authority to search bags but they don't have to leave a notice. They do, of course, have their own version of the "we've been in your bags" notice the TSA leave, so you might have got one of them but it's more likely you got a TSA one.

There have been challenges in US courts to the CBP 'right' to open bags ('suspicionless property searches') on the grounds they were against the First Amendment, but these challenges weren't upheld. The US Government position was that the CBP could "open, access (via login or password), and search through all electronic information stored on travelers' electronic devices. CBP officers may also make copies of the files contained therein or may confiscate the electronic device for further study; they must return the items and provide a receipt for identification of items." This 'right' has had a bit of a recent knocking recently, such that the CBP really should have a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity before they do a proper search of an electronic device. What defines 'reasonable' is still up for grabs. What isn't up for grabs is that they can now do it on the quiet, since your laptop is out of your sweaty mitts once it goes through check-in.