US to ban electronic devices from flights
Discussion
ash73 said:
El stovey said:
ash73 said:
Very disappointed the UK has done this, as soon as we impose these restrictions the terrorists have won. I'd rather just take the risk and get on with life.
I wouldn't. I'd much rather intelligence services make it harder for terrorists to blow up aircraft. Plenty of improvised devices get found at uk airports and plenty of plots get stopped that don't make it into the public domain. If there is a sudden ban like this, it's due to credible evidence that devices and plots exist. 
Still unsure how the cabin baggage ban reduces the probability of a bomb disguised as a PEV finding its way onboard or reduces the effectiveness of such a device once onboard. But I can't help but think that a significant increase in the number of lithium batteries in the hold is a risk and possibly a bigger risk.
El stovey said:
Seems to me that the laptop bomb can't be recognised as a bomb in the first place, that's how it gets on the aircraft. When onboard, the terrorist has to alter or make the bomb with some jiggery pokery. If it's in he hold, he/she can't physically alter the device to turn it into a bomb (combining parts altering its state etc) to make it go off.
Eihther this or you lot are correct and the security services are all wrong or it's all Trumps plan to get one over the arabs,
I just had a brilliant idea, the 'timer' detonator! Eihther this or you lot are correct and the security services are all wrong or it's all Trumps plan to get one over the arabs,
King Herald said:
El stovey said:
Seems to me that the laptop bomb can't be recognised as a bomb in the first place, that's how it gets on the aircraft. When onboard, the terrorist has to alter or make the bomb with some jiggery pokery. If it's in he hold, he/she can't physically alter the device to turn it into a bomb (combining parts altering its state etc) to make it go off.
Eihther this or you lot are correct and the security services are all wrong or it's all Trumps plan to get one over the arabs,
I just had a brilliant idea, the 'timer' detonator! Eihther this or you lot are correct and the security services are all wrong or it's all Trumps plan to get one over the arabs,
In think you can't put a timer on it, as it isn't a bomb yet when you go through security. You have to turn it into a bomb on the flight by adding bits/mixing stuff etc. That's why it's a new threat. It doesn't look like a bomb as its just a laptop and other parts. It needs someone physically to turn it into a bomb during the flight.
If it was a bomb with a timer, then you'd just check it in but it would be recognisable as a bomb by security that the cases go through already,
El stovey said:
I wouldn't. I'd much rather intelligence services make it harder for terrorists to blow up aircraft. Plenty of improvised devices get found at uk airports and plenty of plots get stopped that don't make it into the public domain. If there is a sudden ban like this, it's due to credible evidence that devices and plots exist.
I'm not sure about that. I'd rather not have the additional risk of sitting on top of hundreds of lithium batteries checked into the hold! I think this may be a bigger risk! If one lithium battery self-immolates in the cabin, you can do something about it. It one self-immolates in the cargo hold...surrounded by hundreds of others...??RBH58 said:
El stovey said:
I wouldn't. I'd much rather intelligence services make it harder for terrorists to blow up aircraft. Plenty of improvised devices get found at uk airports and plenty of plots get stopped that don't make it into the public domain. If there is a sudden ban like this, it's due to credible evidence that devices and plots exist.
I'm not sure about that. I'd rather not have the additional risk of sitting on top of hundreds of lithium batteries checked into the hold! I think this may be a bigger risk! If one lithium battery self-immolates in the cabin, you can do something about it. It one self-immolates in the cargo hold...surrounded by hundreds of others...??My comment was in response to the poster that suggested that all these procedures had made flying or other experiences so rubbish that the terrorists had effectively won as we'd altered our way of life so much. He'd rather just take his chances. I was simply saying, I'd rather the security services kept acting on the intelligence they receive.
RBH58 said:
"Security" is often an excuse for something else. Bombs in the hold are not better than bombs in the cabin. Pushing the profitable Business Class customers on to US airlines is a much more credible motive.El stovey said:
You might very well be right but I'm not really arguing about whether lithium batteries are safer in the hold than possible DIY laptop bombs in the cabin.
My comment was in response to the poster that suggested that all these procedures had made flying or other experiences so rubbish that the terrorists had effectively won as we'd altered our way of life so much. He'd rather just take his chances. I was simply saying, I'd rather the security services kept acting on the intelligence they receive.
Me too....but I'm not convinced they've done a good risk assessment here (I fly a lot and out of Middle East destinations on Middle Eastern carriers and this does NOT make me feel safer). And I'm also not convinced that there isn't another "agenda" here.My comment was in response to the poster that suggested that all these procedures had made flying or other experiences so rubbish that the terrorists had effectively won as we'd altered our way of life so much. He'd rather just take his chances. I was simply saying, I'd rather the security services kept acting on the intelligence they receive.
El stovey said:
It's not a bomb in the hold. The person in the cabin has to assemble it.
Bits that can be turned into a bomb are safer in the hold than in the cabin where the assembler is.
Seriously....I'm struggling to see the difference between a device in the cabin and one in the hold. But I can see a big difference, and increased risk, from having hundreds of lithium batteries checked in the hold to achieve not very much.Bits that can be turned into a bomb are safer in the hold than in the cabin where the assembler is.
grumbledoak said:
El stovey said:
Bits that can be turned into a bomb are safer in the hold than in the cabin where the assembler is.
So why aren't they trying to make the US carriers safer too?Answer: because it's not about safety.
It is all about pointless though isn't it?
Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
RBH58 said:
El stovey said:
It's not a bomb in the hold. The person in the cabin has to assemble it.
Bits that can be turned into a bomb are safer in the hold than in the cabin where the assembler is.
Seriously....I'm struggling to see the difference between a device in the cabin and one in the hold. But I can see a big difference, and increased risk, from having hundreds of lithium batteries checked in the hold to achieve not very much.Bits that can be turned into a bomb are safer in the hold than in the cabin where the assembler is.
In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
El stovey said:
Ok the new bomb design is made up of components that individually don't look like a bomb, on their own they can't do anything. They just all loook like different everyday items.
In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
Put it on pre-assembled and on a timer disguised as a device. Heard of Lockerbie?In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
RBH58 said:
El stovey said:
Ok the new bomb design is made up of components that individually don't look like a bomb, on their own they can't do anything. They just all loook like different everyday items.
In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
Put it on pre-assembled and on a timer disguised as a device. Heard of Lockerbie?In the hold they sit there separately and won't get picked up by security.
In the cabin, they get assembled/mixed/whatever and turned into a bomb,
In the hold there is nobody to assemble them into a bomb.
Jader1973 said:
It is all about pointless though isn't it?
Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
Exactly. It's seems all we want to do is make our own lives an inconvenience. I'm a very frequent flyer. I'm all for increased safety....but I'm honestly struggling with this one.Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
Jader1973 said:
It is all about pointless though isn't it?
Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
You have quoted almost word for word my conversation at home.Take their laptop off them at check-in, they get to the other end, buy a knife block in duty free, hop in their hire car and go and cause carnage.
They don't need bombs on planes anymore - they've made walking down the street more of a risk in some people's eyes.
Personally I'm waiting for the attack in a rural town and they will then make everyone aware London may be the centre of democracy but you can die and be slaughtered anywhere.
If this had happened say for example in Winchester the death toll could have been far worse and it's a totally different terrorist strategy.
Frankly I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.
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