Martin Mcguinnes dead

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Discussion

andymadmak

14,489 posts

269 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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PDP76 said:
So are the establishment going to hide his body for 20 years so the family can't bury him and not tell the family where it is ?
I hope not. Two wrongs do not equal one right. Let the man go. He's dead.

If he truly turned to peace, as many claim, then he died with a head full of images of the horrors that his earlier life inflicted on hundreds of innocent people, including women and children.
If the peacemaker roll was all a sham, as many claim, then he died knowing that his ultimate goal in life was never achieved.

Either way, he's dead. Let's not make him more powerful in death than he was in his life!

Sylvaforever

2,212 posts

97 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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And the bombing recommences...

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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BOR said:
andymadmak said:
NI is still part of the United Kingdom. so in respect of his life goals, McGuinness failed and the UK prevailed.

Mostly I think we can be big, magnanimous even, in victory
Congratulations on your victory, that's the main thing.
Do not forget that, if victory it was, it was a victory that the majority of the population of Northern Ireland wanted.

As someone of joint Northern Irish and English lineage, I prefer to call it an outcome

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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andymadmak said:
Whilst the troubles have not completely gone away, NI is a far better and more enlightened place than it was 30 years ago. And it remains the case that NI is still part of the United Kingdom. so in respect of his life goals, McGuinness failed and the UK prevailed.
I think if you want to promote that line it will turn into a blood bath again frown

The outcome with some power sharing was good for just about everyone yes


andymadmak

14,489 posts

269 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
andymadmak said:
Whilst the troubles have not completely gone away, NI is a far better and more enlightened place than it was 30 years ago. And it remains the case that NI is still part of the United Kingdom. so in respect of his life goals, McGuinness failed and the UK prevailed.
I think if you want to promote that line it will turn into a blood bath again frown

The outcome with some power sharing was good for just about everyone yes
Not promoting the line, so much as observing the realities of the situation. I think the majority of folks on all sides are happier now that the troubles are largely (not completely) a thing of the past.
MM put much effort into preserving the peace towards the end of his life, but his life dream of a united Ireland was not realised

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Lol. Dream of united Ireland.

That wouldn't have supported the lucrative drugs and arms trade he headed up.

So much niavety.

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Having grown up in Northern Ireland and lost various family members and friends at the authority of McGuinness, I've made my thoughts clear on him and Adams on previous threads. I will be raising a glass as he is lowered into the ground.
I'm also hearing murmurings from family back in northern Ireland that "the truth will finally out", in regards to his position within the IRA Army Council and for how long, but interestingly whether he was on another payroll. The latter point will hopefully destroy his reputation amongst his die-hard sycophants.

The guy was a nasty, self-serving, cowardly piece of scum. As others have said, he wasn't a villain turned hero, terrorist made peacemaker, he was backed into a corner and had to change his tactics.

His underlying beliefs never changed to the long overdue day he died.

kelvink

57 posts

85 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Mothersruin said:
Lol. Dream of united Ireland.

That wouldn't have supported the lucrative drugs and arms trade he headed up.

So much niavety.
Yes, quiet.

You appreciate that in Belfast the neutrals view is that its the Loyalist militias who are the more inclined to be heavy-handed thugs involved in drugs and protection rackets? The Republicans too but it's the loyalist gangs that bring the nightmares.

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Sylvaforever said:
And the bombing recommences...
It's never really stopped though, has it? It's just not as widely publicised as it once was. Granted, there are not as many indiscriminate bombs going off, or soldiers being shot by snipers, but having spent some time over there again recently, the underlying tension is exactly the same as it was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Many towns are split, the kerbs are still painted, the flags still fly, many pubs are still "them or us".

It still feels like a tinderbox ready to go off at any moment. People still ask "wher ya fram?" "whet school ye go to" as soon as they meet you, sounding out which "side" you are on...

Growing up there converted me to Atheism - so much trouble allegedly in the name of religion, Men of the cloth on both sides harbouring and supporting cold blooded murderers, saying one thing in public, another in private. Blessing the coffins of murderers, and redemption under such circumstances is fundamentally and morally wrong in my eyes. I firmly believe that the clergy are just as evil as the terrorists over there, and that's without looking at the issue of the infanticidal nuns.
How can any of that, however you interpret it, be a beacon of hope, an inspiration, a moral compass or an ambassador for their beliefs?

At the end of it all though, Ireland, united or otherwise, has been a feudal nation since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed, nothing will change.

But today the world is little bit of a better place with the demise of McGuiness.

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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kelvink said:
Mothersruin said:
Lol. Dream of united Ireland.

That wouldn't have supported the lucrative drugs and arms trade he headed up.

So much niavety.
Yes, quiet.

You appreciate that in Belfast the neutrals view is that its the Loyalist militias who are the more inclined to be heavy-handed thugs involved in drugs and protection rackets? The Republicans too but it's the loyalist gangs that bring the nightmares.
I wonder if anyone would have the stones to shout out 'God Save the Queen' at his funeral. hehe

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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S11Steve said:
It's never really stopped though, has it? It's just not as widely publicised as it once was. Granted, there are not as many indiscriminate bombs going off, or soldiers being shot by snipers, but having spent some time over there again recently, the underlying tension is exactly the same as it was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Many towns are split, the kerbs are still painted, the flags still fly, many pubs are still "them or us".

It still feels like a tinderbox ready to go off at any moment. People still ask "wher ya fram?" "whet school ye go to" as soon as they meet you, sounding out which "side" you are on...

Growing up there converted me to Atheism - so much trouble allegedly in the name of religion, Men of the cloth on both sides harbouring and supporting cold blooded murderers, saying one thing in public, another in private. Blessing the coffins of murderers, and redemption under such circumstances is fundamentally and morally wrong in my eyes. I firmly believe that the clergy are just as evil as the terrorists over there, and that's without looking at the issue of the infanticidal nuns.
How can any of that, however you interpret it, be a beacon of hope, an inspiration, a moral compass or an ambassador for their beliefs?

At the end of it all though, Ireland, united or otherwise, has been a feudal nation since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed, nothing will change.

But today the world is little bit of a better place with the demise of McGuiness.
A very fair summary and a timely reminder of why Ireland will, probably, never be one of the safer places for the ordinary man/woman.

boobles

15,241 posts

214 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Robertj21a said:
A very fair summary and a timely reminder of why Ireland will, probably, never be one of the safer places for the ordinary man/woman.
It is safe. I have never in all the times I have been over felt in any danger what so ever.



Apart from the very first time years ago when there was a bomb scare on the boat

Ziplobb

1,350 posts

283 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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I wonder who will provide the security at the funeral - The IRA or the Police NI ? will he get a 'traditional' IRA funeral ? will members of the British government get an invite and how will that sit with some of the IRA members that will no doubt want to show their faces ?

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Ziplobb said:
I wonder who will provide the security at the funeral - The IRA or the Police NI ? will he get a 'traditional' IRA funeral ? will members of the British government get an invite and how will that sit with some of the IRA members that will no doubt want to show their faces ?
Who would go?
If this thread gives an indication, there may be quite a few people wanting to make a meal out of it

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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boobles said:
It is safe. I have never in all the times I have been over felt in any danger what so ever.
And to be fair, you're not far wrong either - it's a beautiful country with many, many great people. A lot of the areas are, and pretty much always have been seemingly safe. But there are still a lot of no-go areas for people on both sides, and walls will always have ears.

I'm probably desensitised somewhat to the security aspect of life over there, but when I took my other half around the outskirts of Belfast last year, the atmosphere was palpable. We went past a really rough looking pub near the Balmoral Trading Estate, an area where I knew from years back when my Grandfather had a fruit wholesalers there, and we noticed a couple of "skets" outsied it pointing at our car.
English plates are still a curious thing in certain areas.

boobles

15,241 posts

214 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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It's ok, my first experience in driving somewhere I really shouldn't have been was Fools road Belfast. I was lost but quickly realized that this was not the place to ask for directions! hehe

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Falls road?

Edited by Mothersruin on Wednesday 22 March 14:57

princealbert23

2,574 posts

160 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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boobles said:
It's ok, my first experience in driving somewhere I really shouldn't have been was Fools road Belfast. I was lost but quickly realized that this was not the place to ask for directions! hehe
Ditto- leaving Belfast city airport and getting lost in the back streets made me rather anxious

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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boobles

15,241 posts

214 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Mothersruin said:
Falls road?

Edited by Mothersruin on Wednesday 22 March 14:57
yes We call it "fools" road because you would have to be to drive down it! hehe