Martin Mcguinnes dead
Discussion
Blair's just been on the BBC News.
One lying warmonger lauding another
Sick bucket full
Worth a read
https://reaction.life/martin-mcguinness-bad-bastar...
One lying warmonger lauding another
Sick bucket full
Worth a read
https://reaction.life/martin-mcguinness-bad-bastar...
Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 21st March 18:20
Derek Smith said:
King Herald said:
A brief glance at the history of the English in Ireland will give an inkling of why some Irish are so bitter toward English rule.
White slavery, the selling of Irishmen as slaves, the potato blight, the resultant famines, etc etc, all caused by the English.
And while I can't blame them for wanting their piece of the British, the blind and indiscriminate bombing of the public that the IRA were responsible for is unforgivable.,
I agree with your post but would modify a little. You should have said what some are told about slavery, the famine, etc is mainly myth. The facts paint a very different picture.White slavery, the selling of Irishmen as slaves, the potato blight, the resultant famines, etc etc, all caused by the English.
And while I can't blame them for wanting their piece of the British, the blind and indiscriminate bombing of the public that the IRA were responsible for is unforgivable.,
The poor in Ireland were treated the same as the poor on the mainland. There is ample to support this. The rich and powerful in general did not give a damn about the ‘undeserving’ poor, ie the poor.
Records show that there were more deaths through starvation in ‘England’, which I assume included Wales, than in Ireland during the potato famine. Percentages are difficult to support but there would appear to be little doubt that before the famine you had a better chance of survival being poor in Ireland than in England.
The USA did not send fleets of ships stocked with supplies. In fact the majority of ships that delivered famine relief were from England/Wales, but well late. I would assume there were some from Scotland but the research I read did not include them.
The famine was caused by the dependence on a monoculture, one that some ‘English’ tried to remove. The deaths were cause because the was no structure for famine relief, and a religious belief in the poor being the cause of their own problems.
What the ruling mob did to the Irish as well as to those on the mainland was horrific. Those that did it to the poor are all now dead. It's well past the time to move on.
History is fascinating. It is an endless source of excitement. It is easy to abuse for political ends though.
BigLion said:
s3fella said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
Just watched BBC news coverage and realise he was the queen of our hearts, the people's terrorist.
I hear he was a promising footballer.....
The cheeky chappy
Funnily enough the only place where I have seen this mentioned today is on the news, not mentioned by anyone at work, been completely ignored.
The bbc and others have gone OTT.
Chanel 4 news, Alastair Campbell got a strip torn off him big time by a relative of a victim of the ira.
The bbc and others have gone OTT.
Chanel 4 news, Alastair Campbell got a strip torn off him big time by a relative of a victim of the ira.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 21st March 19:29
gottans said:
Funnily enough the only place where I have seen this mentioned today is on the news, not mentioned by anyone at work, been completely ignored.
The bbc and others have gone OTT.
Over on the life reality that is Twitter, it's been getting a fair few hits. As you will probably have guessed by now, the press outlets have been giving their particular opinion of the man, whereas the public have been mostly expressing a different viewpoint about his life's activities. The bbc and others have gone OTT.
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
I echo others, no loss, he was a murdering piece of sDespite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
t.Whilst no Tory fan I still hugely admire John Major for orchestrating the GFA (Blair only ever rubber stamped it)
It's just a shame that him and his b
d side kick Adams being bought to the table was the (only viable) compromise. BigLion said:
Unfortunately history is written by the victors, I'm not surprised the 'facts' favour the english as it was the english who wrote those facts!
Firstly, just because something is an aphorism doesn't make it true. History is not written solely by the victors. Indeed, if you know the source of the quote you will know that the point is that there can be no objective view of history. It is a glib title, meant, as most titles are, to attract the reader. Aphorisms give all the appearance of wisdom without any of that tedious thinking.The history I was talking about was that spoken by the Irish. I had Irish aunts who bewailed being abandoned by 'the English' while they fiddled with their beads. Yet the evidence, such as dock records, shows that much of what is still being repeated, and written, is wrong.
I was also saying that the poor in England/Wales at least, and probably in Scotland as well, was in every bit as terrible a situation as the Irish poor. Rural Rides was not penned by the 'victors'. It was written and then largely ignored.
The vast majority of the population in 'England', that is England, Wales and Scotland, did not have the vote. They had little or no control over how they were governed or what their rulers did elsewhere. The much hyped 1832 Great Reform Act was nothing of the sort. So they in fact could do nothing to alleviate the famine. Mind you, most would not have known of it for some time. On top of that, they were suffering as well. The potato blight affected England, Wales and Scotland as well as much of Europe. There were food scarcities and the majority of the population suffered even worse deprivation than what was shown in Cobett's book.
The point about history is that it is always being revised. There is not just the one story, so Orwell's suggestion doesn't hold water.
That the few in authority with the power to relieve the famine in Ireland did not act, at least initially, is hardly surprising. They didn't act for the starving on the mainland either. It was a hard life for the poor in GB, Ireland and the rest of Europe around that time. I could go and plant a bomb at Beaulieu and blow up Lord Montagu to show just how upset I am at the terrible treatment my Irish great, great, great grandparents suffered at the hands of his ilk. But I won't.
The enclosure acts and the corn laws caused all sorts of suffering in 'England'. But shall we move on and get a life?
I am pleased he is dead. I wish he had died sooner but had suffered more and had actually paid for his crimes.
I would feel exactly the same about a loyalist and indeed Tony Blair.
If you have a point to make, start off in politics. If you want to be a terrorist, go around cutting undersea internet cables rather than harming people who have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
I would feel exactly the same about a loyalist and indeed Tony Blair.
If you have a point to make, start off in politics. If you want to be a terrorist, go around cutting undersea internet cables rather than harming people who have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Edited by bloomen on Tuesday 21st March 20:04
gottans said:
Funnily enough the only place where I have seen this mentioned today is on the news, not mentioned by anyone at work, been completely ignored.
The bbc and others have gone OTT.
Chanel 4 news, Alastair Campbell got a strip torn off him big time by a relative of a victim of the ira.
I feel a little sorry for Headscarf Hannah the presenter. She always seem to pop up when the news has got some terrorist angleThe bbc and others have gone OTT.
Chanel 4 news, Alastair Campbell got a strip torn off him big time by a relative of a victim of the ira.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 21st March 19:29
To call McGuinnes a terrorist is to simplistic
McGuinnes considered himself from the very start to be a soldier engaged in unrestricted warfare against britian,no target was out of bounds in his mind.He was spotted as a rising star from the very start in the republican movement and swiftly moved through the ranks by virtue of his intelligence and total ruthlessness. (and quite possibly help from british secret services allegedly).
All this talk about him changing his spots is just pure rubbish he never changed his desire for a unified and independent Ireland all he changed was his strategy.
In the 90's both the british and Pira realised they were at a stalemate
The british could not end the armed wing of the republican movement with out taking some quite drastic measures which the british public and judiciary would not have stood for.
Pira realised the british goverment would never give in to armed actions
these two things combined with a hardening american attitude towards the irish problem meant both sides had to do something the stale mate was no longer a option.
In short McGuinnes did not change he just adapted to the new political reality and thankfully managed to drag along most of his fellow republicans
So while i wont mourn his passing i am glad he was bright enough to spot that a change of strategy was needed and had the ability to persuade his followers to change course with him.
McGuinnes considered himself from the very start to be a soldier engaged in unrestricted warfare against britian,no target was out of bounds in his mind.He was spotted as a rising star from the very start in the republican movement and swiftly moved through the ranks by virtue of his intelligence and total ruthlessness. (and quite possibly help from british secret services allegedly).
All this talk about him changing his spots is just pure rubbish he never changed his desire for a unified and independent Ireland all he changed was his strategy.
In the 90's both the british and Pira realised they were at a stalemate
The british could not end the armed wing of the republican movement with out taking some quite drastic measures which the british public and judiciary would not have stood for.
Pira realised the british goverment would never give in to armed actions
these two things combined with a hardening american attitude towards the irish problem meant both sides had to do something the stale mate was no longer a option.
In short McGuinnes did not change he just adapted to the new political reality and thankfully managed to drag along most of his fellow republicans
So while i wont mourn his passing i am glad he was bright enough to spot that a change of strategy was needed and had the ability to persuade his followers to change course with him.
bloomen said:
I am pleased he is dead. I wish he had died sooner but had suffered more and had actually paid for his crimes.
I would feel exactly the same about a loyalist and indeed Tony Blair.
If you have a point to make, start off in politics. If you want to be a terrorist, go around cutting undersea internet cables rather than harming people who have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Yes, large scale disobedience (not of the murdery type) and sabotage of transport and infrastructure systems could have caused massive disruption to the British. Actual real disruption that cost money to fix and caused financial losses, but not the murder of innocent civilians who had no involvement in the struggle, the war, whatever you want to call it. I would feel exactly the same about a loyalist and indeed Tony Blair.
If you have a point to make, start off in politics. If you want to be a terrorist, go around cutting undersea internet cables rather than harming people who have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Edited by bloomen on Tuesday 21st March 20:04
One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist, blah, blah, I wouldn't say that murdering civilians could be considered freedom fighting though.
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