Martin Mcguinnes dead
Discussion
It's an interesting situation.
I abhor the filthy IRA & their activities. Same goes for the terrorists on the other side.
Whilst Peter Hain's spiel on R4 earlier was a bit bile inducing, it does seem that MM worked "for" the peace process.
At the back of my mind though, I do wonder exactly how much contrition there actually was on his part vs the need to be politically expedient.
As such, I won't join in the general slagging off but I will withhold any other sentiment.
I expect the rawness of the relatives of the IRA victims is not salved by his death.
It is to those victims I say RIP.
I abhor the filthy IRA & their activities. Same goes for the terrorists on the other side.
Whilst Peter Hain's spiel on R4 earlier was a bit bile inducing, it does seem that MM worked "for" the peace process.
At the back of my mind though, I do wonder exactly how much contrition there actually was on his part vs the need to be politically expedient.
As such, I won't join in the general slagging off but I will withhold any other sentiment.
I expect the rawness of the relatives of the IRA victims is not salved by his death.
It is to those victims I say RIP.
you have to take people with you
It would have no good someone from outside trying to do what he did
He had to be inside build up support then take the organisation to a new position
If it wasnt for him and people like John Major there would still be carnage on the streets every week
Good job well done, much more to do
It still needs something like in South Africa where truth can come out without retribution
RIP
It would have no good someone from outside trying to do what he did
He had to be inside build up support then take the organisation to a new position
If it wasnt for him and people like John Major there would still be carnage on the streets every week
Good job well done, much more to do
It still needs something like in South Africa where truth can come out without retribution
RIP
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st March 08:16
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
Smiler. said:
It's an interesting situation.
I abhor the filthy IRA & their activities. Same goes for the terrorists on the other side.
Whilst Peter Hain's spiel on R4 earlier was a bit bile inducing, it does seem that MM worked "for" the peace process.
At the back of my mind though, I do wonder exactly how much contrition there actually was on his part vs the need to be politically expedient.
As such, I won't join in the general slagging off but I will withhold any other sentiment.
I expect the rawness of the relatives of the IRA victims is not salved by his death.
It is to those victims I say RIP.
I found Peter Haine fascinating this morning.I abhor the filthy IRA & their activities. Same goes for the terrorists on the other side.
Whilst Peter Hain's spiel on R4 earlier was a bit bile inducing, it does seem that MM worked "for" the peace process.
At the back of my mind though, I do wonder exactly how much contrition there actually was on his part vs the need to be politically expedient.
As such, I won't join in the general slagging off but I will withhold any other sentiment.
I expect the rawness of the relatives of the IRA victims is not salved by his death.
It is to those victims I say RIP.
What you need to bear in mind is that the Good Friday Agreement, whilst on balance likely to have been a good thing, is controversial. I can't imagine anyone really supports the idea of effectively pardoning murderers and Peter Haine has to spin MM against that backdrop so as not to be seen as a collaborator in something that shouldn't have happened. It's pointless asking senior people involved in the Good Friday Agreement about this sort of thing because you'll never get any objective comment.
Some of the stuff Haine said about MM's character sounded like MM had completely played a number on the British Government, desperate to be seen to fix the problem. I don't buy MM as a follower of the England Cricket team FFS.
What's disappointing is that the two positions can be reconciled; you can agree with the principle of the GFA whilst maintaining the position the MM was an utter
. You can argue that MM being a political player was necessary for the success of the GFA too, but at the same time the policy should have been "only as much as is necessary and no more." That the BBC, Peter Haine etc want to airbrush out the bad bit as much as they can get away with is pretty abhorrent. The BBC lass got incredibly flustered when McColville was on and mentioned that MM had told a family that their relative was safe to come back from the mainland before said relative was then murdered. Don't think that was part of the script about the reformed Mr McGuinness.
OpulentBob said:
Good. I hope it was painful. The utter . He was a piece of st terrorist, not some sort of romantic freedom fighter.
This. I expect the BBC to "do a castro" with him, but he was a basty piec eof work. And remember: the IRA lost. He was a piece of st terrorist, not some sort of romantic freedom fighter.https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/jeremy-corby...
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
Crassly simplistic summary, which fails to address the very clear conflicts of character and deed that others have raised. I didn't think you could go down much further in my estimations, but that is staggering.Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
There's little doubt that he was involved, closely involved, in a number of murders. The Mountbatten bombing, which, don't forget took three by-standers as well, no doubt justified as collateral damage, was particularly repugnant as it was for nothing more than publicity.
McGuinnes was forced to the negotiating table; he was not the architect of the GFA. It is a tribute to the government that they went for an agreement, it is even more so that they got it through and have continued to honour it, not that there's any sensible option.
He was involved in murders of innocent people, of that there can be little doubt. He was in charge and he revelled in it. Many people died for his political ambition.
No one on TV or elsewhere will mention a hero of mine, Kenneth Howorth. He was a positive for McGuinnes and a loss to the country. Just what we didn't need, fewer people willing to risk their lives for what turned out to be the GFA.
I've always felt that if a person I particularly dislike dies, it is pointless criticising them because I've won as such. I've outlived them. McGuinnes is different though. I've watched Sky News tell everyone that the changed his spots. That he was brave in going for the GFA and that it was in some way a brilliant move to shake hands with the Queen. To me it confirmed me a a royalist.
He lived as a murderer, and had things not gone his way, he would have continued to do so. A conditional rejection of murder is not a change of spots.
Good riddance.
McGuinnes was forced to the negotiating table; he was not the architect of the GFA. It is a tribute to the government that they went for an agreement, it is even more so that they got it through and have continued to honour it, not that there's any sensible option.
He was involved in murders of innocent people, of that there can be little doubt. He was in charge and he revelled in it. Many people died for his political ambition.
No one on TV or elsewhere will mention a hero of mine, Kenneth Howorth. He was a positive for McGuinnes and a loss to the country. Just what we didn't need, fewer people willing to risk their lives for what turned out to be the GFA.
I've always felt that if a person I particularly dislike dies, it is pointless criticising them because I've won as such. I've outlived them. McGuinnes is different though. I've watched Sky News tell everyone that the changed his spots. That he was brave in going for the GFA and that it was in some way a brilliant move to shake hands with the Queen. To me it confirmed me a a royalist.
He lived as a murderer, and had things not gone his way, he would have continued to do so. A conditional rejection of murder is not a change of spots.
Good riddance.
Just realised that's both the 'chuckle brothers' gone
Each had to bring their own side to the table
Without them ( and Major & Trimble) each side would still be engaged in a war they couldnt win and didnt want to lose
It's still fragile but they pulled it off
RIP to the both of them
Each had to bring their own side to the table
Without them ( and Major & Trimble) each side would still be engaged in a war they couldnt win and didnt want to lose
It's still fragile but they pulled it off
RIP to the both of them
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st March 08:55
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
It seems odd, therefore, that Scotland, without terrorism, murders, attempts to blow up the government, managed to be offered a free vote.Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
He achieved a colossal number of deaths. He refused to reveal where some of the bodies are buried. He was pushed to the GFA by the government. To suggest that the GFA was his target is nonsensical. He was still pushing for a united Ireland and if the GFA got in his way, he'd ensure it went.
If anything, McGuinnes and the PIRA have probably delayed unification.
That's his legacy.
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
He didn't blow up anyone you know obviously.Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
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