Martin Mcguinnes dead
Discussion
RiP
Rot in Purgatory
In 1972, at the age of 21, he was second-in-command of the IRA. He was a murderer, not a freedom fighter that would be just fighting the Army; he was actively involved in civilian bombings and he shot Irish civilians.
The British Army are getting some flack on social media today, but they never put bombs designed to kill & main in shopping centres full of Mothers and children.
Rot in Purgatory
In 1972, at the age of 21, he was second-in-command of the IRA. He was a murderer, not a freedom fighter that would be just fighting the Army; he was actively involved in civilian bombings and he shot Irish civilians.
The British Army are getting some flack on social media today, but they never put bombs designed to kill & main in shopping centres full of Mothers and children.
Mgd_uk said:
Ah ok of course, thanks. Same as what Lockhart was referring to earlier.A Leopard that changed his spots (at least outwardly).
I won't shed any tears for the killer, but at least he worked to make NI a better place in later years (few would argue it's not better today than 20 years ago, I'm sure).
I'm sure there are plenty on his side of the divide that think he 'betrayed' them.
M.
PS as far as I know, he never covered up for an incestuous, paedophile brother, either...
I won't shed any tears for the killer, but at least he worked to make NI a better place in later years (few would argue it's not better today than 20 years ago, I'm sure).
I'm sure there are plenty on his side of the divide that think he 'betrayed' them.
M.
PS as far as I know, he never covered up for an incestuous, paedophile brother, either...
Emanresu said:
marcosgt said:
PS as far as I know, he never covered up for an incestuous, paedophile brother, either...
Wasn't that Gerry Adams and his brother Liam?Oakey said:
"It's not how you start your life that's important but how you finish" -- Ian Paisley
For a man who believed the Pope was the antichrist, that's a remarkably Catholic sentiment! 
M
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
I thought that the IRA were dedicated to Irish republicanism, the belief that all of Ireland should be an independent republic? In which case his life was a total failure; Northern Ireland is still a constituent of the UK. All that murder and slaughter for nothing.Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
Digga said:
BOR said:
He achieved a colossal amount. Building PIRA into a credible threat to force UK government to push through a political alternative, and in parallel, bringing hard-line PIRA membership for the most part, along through the proccess of building up Sinn Fein.
Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
Crassly simplistic summary, which fails to address the very clear conflicts of character and deed that others have raised. I didn't think you could go down much further in my estimations, but that is staggering.Despite the odds managed to more or less hold the GFA and the ceasefire until finally forming a power sharing government of sorts in Stormont.
Massive achievement and massive legacy that I hope will be recognised.
I'm with Lord Tebbit
Lord Tebbit said:
While Lord Tebbit, a Conservative minister who was injured - and whose wife was paralysed - in the 1984 Grand Hotel bombing in Brighton, said “the world is now a sweeter and cleaner place” after McGuinness’s death.
Tebbit told ‘Good Morning Britain’: “He was not only a multi-murderer, he was a coward.
“He knew that the IRA were defeated because British intelligence had penetrated right the way up to the Army Council and that the end was coming.
“He then sought to save his own skin and he knew that it was likely he would be charged before long with several murders which he had personally committed and he decided that the only thing to do was to opt for peace.
“He claimed to be a Roman Catholic. I hope that his beliefs turn out to be true and he’ll be parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity.”
Tebbit told ‘Good Morning Britain’: “He was not only a multi-murderer, he was a coward.
“He knew that the IRA were defeated because British intelligence had penetrated right the way up to the Army Council and that the end was coming.
“He then sought to save his own skin and he knew that it was likely he would be charged before long with several murders which he had personally committed and he decided that the only thing to do was to opt for peace.
“He claimed to be a Roman Catholic. I hope that his beliefs turn out to be true and he’ll be parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity.”
k that.Emanresu said:
Yes there were bombs on the mainland but nothing compared to the carnage in NI. When I was growing up, there was something on the news about a bomb or a murder everyday. I never even batted an eyelid because it was just 'normal'. No child should ever have to grow up believing that is normal.
There were a LOT of bombs on "the mainland". 11 Bandsmen in Kent (1989), 7 dead - civilian mess stewards, cleaners, a gardener and a Roman Catholic Army Chaplain in Aldershot (1972), 4 Guardsmen on ceremonial duties and seven musicians (1982), Baron McAlpine's West Green House as late as 1990. Many of these actions largely forgotten. Shootings of airmen in front of their families while driving home from Germany, officers assassinated on their driveways. I was resident in a barracks twice involved as a target of PIRA ASUs in Germany.I don't want to belittle the experience of NI residents, but there was far more 'going on' on the mainland than a lot of people recall. Crossing a road to get to work in the morning, I'd be constantly watching the occupants of passing cars, lest one might stick a gun out of the window, or drop a grenade at my feet. I sat at home some nights, in the days before mobile phones were commonplace, wondering if my wife would come home from her shift at a London hospital when the breaking TV news story was more bin-bombs in the capital. Just because people weren't killed or injured in many of the attacks doesn't make them any less "terrifying" to people being bundled off the streets by police officers, not knowing if they were being herded toward a secondary device.
I totally get that living in NI without sectarian blinkers must be tough. I served with enough Scots to see sectarian hatred close up, and Irish extremism must have been so much worse. I also accept that Martin McGuinness was important to the peace process due to the respect he commanded from republicans as a result of having "served" in the IRA. An outsider, a non-paramilitary politician probably wouldn't have brought so many republicans to the negotiating table with them. But service to peace in later life can't, and won't wipe away his record of extreme violence and criminal activity during his younger years.
Such a shame that so many victims of 'The Troubles' were denied the comfort and support of being surrounded by their families when their lives were so selfishly, and pointlessly taken away from them by both sides in the troubled towns and cities of Northern Ireland. As I said in another thread, I genuinely hope McGuinness has a legacy to leave. That the baton will be carried forward by someone who can keep violent tendencies in check, and who will continue to be respected by those who have a history of violence. Irish people deserve peace, and to move forward confident that they are safe to walk the streets and live their lives. Hopefully they'll get that, rather than the Assembly elections creating friction that descends into hatred once more. Pray God that there'll be some strong, sensible characters on both sides to enable this work to continue...
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