House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
randlemarcus said:
Vaud said:
Or do we lock up everyone for GBH, possession of offensive weapons and public order offences in internment camps?
Sounds like a reasonably good plan, if i am honest. Make them work camps, so the cost isn't too high, and make sure the rules apply to native scummers too. GBH, Public Order and weapons offences don't scream good citizen to me.Read any 20th century history at all?
Remember any of it?
Don't bother, you've already answered to my satisfaction.
p1stonhead said:
fatboy18 said:
Internment camps "till we can figure out exactly what is going on"
What is The most moronic statement you can think of?We're playing jeopardy right?
Old Tyke said:
rscott said:
You do realise ISIS have murdered thousands of Muslims? They've killed more Muslims in a single bomb attack than they have in all the attacks in Europe.
Well that makes it alright then! 
You claimed that the Muslim community have protests against Islamic Extremism yet 1. you can only provide evidence of this from two small marches which virtually nobody noticed and 2. you then go on to admit that they'd have been having the marches anyway as it's a Holy Day and yearly tradition.
How many Muslims are their in the UK? Millions.
How many can be seen protesting against Islamic Extremism? ....
No further questions your honour.
How many Muslims are their in the UK? Millions.
How many are carrying out acts of terror in the name of Islamic Extremism? ....
If you were correct and all of these Muslims supported terrorism, there would be scenes such as that in London several times each day.
But there aren't.
You clown.
The idea we're going to detain people (for what period of time) for expressing extremist views without conviction is fanciful and never going to happen. The terrorism legislation we have is about as about as draconian as we probably want to go in a free society. There are plenty of powers within in it to deal with people.
The only links to terrorism this guy has is a fringe link. That could, and is likely to be, extremely weak i.e. he could have been associated with someone the police were looking at. A phone contact of someone they arrested etc. It may be stronger than that, but the wording from the PM suggests not. We'll have to see.
So what practical solution are people proposing? Say he expressed an extreme view in 2004 but it didn't amount to a crime. Should he have been detained since then without conviction? How long is he kept for? Until he dies?
A bit of silly, simplistic and unrealistic solution.
What do you mean by that? He was British born.
The only links to terrorism this guy has is a fringe link. That could, and is likely to be, extremely weak i.e. he could have been associated with someone the police were looking at. A phone contact of someone they arrested etc. It may be stronger than that, but the wording from the PM suggests not. We'll have to see.
So what practical solution are people proposing? Say he expressed an extreme view in 2004 but it didn't amount to a crime. Should he have been detained since then without conviction? How long is he kept for? Until he dies?
A bit of silly, simplistic and unrealistic solution.
randlemarcus said:
Vaud said:
Or do we lock up everyone for GBH, possession of offensive weapons and public order offences in internment camps?
Sounds like a reasonably good plan, if i am honest. Make them work camps, so the cost isn't too high, and make sure the rules apply to native scummers too. GBH, Public Order and weapons offences don't scream good citizen to me.Fozziebear said:
p1stonhead said:
fatboy18 said:
Internment camps "till we can figure out exactly what is going on"
What is The most moronic statement you can think of?We're playing jeopardy right?
limpsfield said:
How many do you reckon we would end up locking up? Genuine question.
And then, while we are locking all of these ne'er do wells up, what do you reckon the impact will be on those who have never been fingered by the law but have some sympathies with the interred?
I think our police stations will be inundated as they all turn up to hand themselves in.
As many as is necessary And then, while we are locking all of these ne'er do wells up, what do you reckon the impact will be on those who have never been fingered by the law but have some sympathies with the interred?
I think our police stations will be inundated as they all turn up to hand themselves in.
Fozziebear said:
p1stonhead said:
fatboy18 said:
Internment camps "till we can figure out exactly what is going on"
What is The most moronic statement you can think of?We're playing jeopardy right?
If there was an easy solution it would probably be on the table. There isn't. And it certainly isn't 'guilty until proven innocent'.
In the beginning of WW II The Isle of Man was turned into a massive internment camp for people from all over the UK, it included German and Italians and many other non nationals And Nazi sympathisers. Everyone was rounded up without trial and sent to the island. Then over the months years the rot was sorted out from the innocent parties.
There are many people that post on social media that they are happy to see this Terrorism and preach against the Western world the cheering on Al jazeera with the twin towers, Abu Hamza al-Masri is just one such example of these extremists and look how long it took to lock him up!
At what point would Internment be put in place? How many more attacks would it take? The Government have said in the past "it's a War on Terror" So in a War situation, why not sort out the rot from the innocent?
There are many people that post on social media that they are happy to see this Terrorism and preach against the Western world the cheering on Al jazeera with the twin towers, Abu Hamza al-Masri is just one such example of these extremists and look how long it took to lock him up!
At what point would Internment be put in place? How many more attacks would it take? The Government have said in the past "it's a War on Terror" So in a War situation, why not sort out the rot from the innocent?
chow pan toon said:
The answer is not to overreact like a dizzy teenage girl. WW2 being compared to the current situation?! The mind boggles, what a bunch of patsies.
Just using ww2 as an example, global war etc. I'm definitely not overreacting to the situation, lived through IRA attacks in London with no issues, I'm just curious to how it can be stopped from happening again. Again, nobody is asking for an apology, why would you suggest so? I'm not pointing any blame. Read what I said again, your preconceptions of what I am saying are very telling.
No apology required from any communities (they do exist trust me), all i'm suggesting is that the people who could bring differing societies together are the vast vast majority of muslims in the UK that are peace loving. I actually believe they want to integrate more but are forbidden by their religious teachers and teachings.
Why do so many people on here jump to 'take a side' so quickly. Perhaps if we realised we were on the same side things might improve. I wonder sometimes if some people don't wish to be part of the West at all? Maybe I am being too optimistic?
The pictures do nothing for me but thanks for posting.
No apology required from any communities (they do exist trust me), all i'm suggesting is that the people who could bring differing societies together are the vast vast majority of muslims in the UK that are peace loving. I actually believe they want to integrate more but are forbidden by their religious teachers and teachings.
Why do so many people on here jump to 'take a side' so quickly. Perhaps if we realised we were on the same side things might improve. I wonder sometimes if some people don't wish to be part of the West at all? Maybe I am being too optimistic?
The pictures do nothing for me but thanks for posting.
gregs656 said:
Generally people are not quick to apologise for things they do not associate them selves with. I imagine the vast majority of muslims you speak of simply do not associate them selves with terrorists, and therefore do not feel the need to act as a counter balance.
Maybe, just maybe, if there was a little less talk of 'these communities' and a little less focus on people who have no reason to take any blame and a little more focus on the elements of our society that wish to wage a war on the west then our entire community could move forward more effectively - attitudes at the moment are I think extremely counter productive. The sharing of that picture is a prime example. Designed only to fuel hatred and division.
This big media fan fare and the divisiveness on social media must have your local ISIS recruiter watching on in glee. It is exactly what they want.
Maybe, just maybe, if there was a little less talk of 'these communities' and a little less focus on people who have no reason to take any blame and a little more focus on the elements of our society that wish to wage a war on the west then our entire community could move forward more effectively - attitudes at the moment are I think extremely counter productive. The sharing of that picture is a prime example. Designed only to fuel hatred and division.
This big media fan fare and the divisiveness on social media must have your local ISIS recruiter watching on in glee. It is exactly what they want.
Edited by gregs656 on Thursday 23 March 18:50
Old Tyke said:
Bill said:
Old Tyke said:
Really. Well I guess if proof of so-called moderate Muslims admitting that they are in fact radical, extremists doesn't convince you then nothing will. Listen carefully to the questions and the answers then look up what ISIS stand for. Open your eyes people.
Vaud said:
Because, so far do we have any evidence that he encouraged extreme acts of violence? He had prior convictions, none for terrorism.
Or do we lock up everyone for GBH, possession of offensive weapons and public order offences in internment camps?
No we don't know yet, but it is known he has been involved in terrorism. It's also quite telling several other people have been arrested in connection. Or do we lock up everyone for GBH, possession of offensive weapons and public order offences in internment camps?
I'd propose we lock up people who are involved in terrorism. It's only an opinion, it won't ever happen. I don't know why people are so indignant about it.
Vaud said:
Fozziebear said:
We are at war with an extreme evil that wants us gone. I'm not sure what the real answer is, maybe more investment in surveillance, border controls and deportation?
In this case, where do you deport people to who were born in Kent?fatboy18 said:
In the beginning of WW II The Isle of Man was turned into a massive internment camp for people from all over the UK, it included German and Italians and many other non nationals And Nazi sympathisers. Everyone was rounded up without trial and sent to the island. Then over the months years the rot was sorted out from the innocent parties.
There are many people that post on social media that they are happy to see this Terrorism and preach against the Western world the cheering on Al jazeera with the twin towers, Abu Hamza al-Masri is just one such example of these extremists and look how long it took to lock him up!
At what point would Internment be put in place? How many more attacks would it take? The Government have said in the past "it's a War on Terror" So in a War situation, why not sort out the rot from the innocent?
How far back do you go to lock people up? 15 years ago including anyone British born with a GBH conviction and no terrorism conviction? Need more than the Isle of Man... There are many people that post on social media that they are happy to see this Terrorism and preach against the Western world the cheering on Al jazeera with the twin towers, Abu Hamza al-Masri is just one such example of these extremists and look how long it took to lock him up!
At what point would Internment be put in place? How many more attacks would it take? The Government have said in the past "it's a War on Terror" So in a War situation, why not sort out the rot from the innocent?
Dindoit said:
Old Tyke said:
Bill said:
Old Tyke said:
Really. Well I guess if proof of so-called moderate Muslims admitting that they are in fact radical, extremists doesn't convince you then nothing will. Listen carefully to the questions and the answers then look up what ISIS stand for. Open your eyes people.
bmw535i said:
No we don't know yet, but it is known he has been involved in terrorism. It's also quite telling several other people have been arrested in connection.
I'd propose we lock up people who are involved in terrorism. It's only an opinion, it won't ever happen. I don't know why people are so indignant about it.
They are locked up. They serve a sentence after a trial by peers. That's how it works.I'd propose we lock up people who are involved in terrorism. It's only an opinion, it won't ever happen. I don't know why people are so indignant about it.
Or are you suggesting lifetime internment without trial?
Forgive me if my memory is faulty, but are you serving forces or ex-forces? I recall earlier threads. You are entitled to your view, but I am curious if any events have informed your view from a personal standpoint.
Edited by Vaud on Thursday 23 March 19:58
Bill said:
Old Tyke said:
Well I guess if proof of so-called moderate Muslims admitting that they are in fact radical, extremists doesn't convince you then nothing will. Listen carefully to the questions and the answers then look up what ISIS stand for. Open your eyes people.
It's not proof of anything.If so called moderates are actually extremists why aren't we swamped by attacks like yesterday's? Why is there resistance to ISIS? Surely, if you're right, the Muslim world would march as one with ISIS?
We are winning. And the extremists hate it.
Edited by Old Tyke on Thursday 23 March 20:01
An interesting analysis for those interested - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/london-terrorist-at...
Maybe a more realistic adversary path analysis is a good idea in these cases; take scanners at entrances - it's often assumed this is the barrier whereas for the attacker it's actually just the start line; rather like an unarmed entrance in this case. All respect to those involved who performed tremendously.
Maybe a more realistic adversary path analysis is a good idea in these cases; take scanners at entrances - it's often assumed this is the barrier whereas for the attacker it's actually just the start line; rather like an unarmed entrance in this case. All respect to those involved who performed tremendously.
MrNoisy said:
Again, nobody is asking for an apology, why would you suggest so? I'm not pointing any blame. Read what I said again, your preconceptions of what I am saying are very telling.
No apology required from any communities (they do exist trust me), all i'm suggesting is that the people who could bring differing societies together are the vast vast majority of muslims in the UK that are peace loving. I actually believe they want to integrate more but are forbidden by their religious teachers and teachings.
Why do so many people on here jump to 'take a side' so quickly. Perhaps if we realised we were on the same side things might improve. I wonder sometimes if some people don't wish to be part of the West at all? Maybe I am being too optimistic?
The pictures do nothing for me but thanks for posting.
If you read what I say you will see I went on to say that people are reluctant to provide a counter balance to something they don't associate themselves with. I have no preconceptions of what you say, I think are positions are quite close. The nuance is that I imagine the vast majority Muslims you speak of feel no more need to speak out about western values your average white person. It is just part of their life. They don't feel like they are part of a differing society, this is their society. You are perceiving a division they do not and then expecting them to do something about it.No apology required from any communities (they do exist trust me), all i'm suggesting is that the people who could bring differing societies together are the vast vast majority of muslims in the UK that are peace loving. I actually believe they want to integrate more but are forbidden by their religious teachers and teachings.
Why do so many people on here jump to 'take a side' so quickly. Perhaps if we realised we were on the same side things might improve. I wonder sometimes if some people don't wish to be part of the West at all? Maybe I am being too optimistic?
The pictures do nothing for me but thanks for posting.
The pictures were not meant to do anything for you. They are just other snapshots of the bridge that woman walked across, with other people walking past and not involving them selves. A great shame that some one decided to focus on one woman being as human as everyone else on that bridge.
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