House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
As I said, it doesnt matter what you think in this scenario. If they wanted to investigate you for ANY reason, you would be in jail.
We're not talking about any reason, we're talking about involvement in terrorism. Saying hello to a terrorist doesn't mean you're involved with terrorism.bmw535i said:
We're not talking about any reason, we're talking about involvement in terrorism. Saying hello to a terrorist doesn't mean you're involved with terrorism.
Where do you draw the line?Feeding a terrorist's cat whilst he (or she, sexist!) is away at a training camp?
What if they borrowed your cordless drill to put up a shelf? Or so they said!
What if you typed up a Tripadvisor report on a hotel which was read by a terrorist and chosen as the base of operations because you said the pool was secluded?
It's so difficult to know what to do under your rules.
Dindoit said:
Where do you draw the line?
Feeding a terrorist's cat whilst he (or she, sexist!) is away at a training camp?
What if they borrowed your cordless drill to put up a shelf? Or so they said!
What if you typed up a Tripadvisor report on a hotel which was read by a terrorist and chosen as the base of operations because you said the pool was secluded?
It's so difficult to know what to do under your rules.
I don't recall making any rulesFeeding a terrorist's cat whilst he (or she, sexist!) is away at a training camp?
What if they borrowed your cordless drill to put up a shelf? Or so they said!
What if you typed up a Tripadvisor report on a hotel which was read by a terrorist and chosen as the base of operations because you said the pool was secluded?
It's so difficult to know what to do under your rules.
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Just out of interest, who is going to decide if someone is or isn't involved in terrorism. Is there a bright white line people are not allowed to cross, because life usually that simple.
The security services.bmw535i said:
I know. Hello means hello - got to be pretty thick to say it means something in code
I don't know why people keep asking me the same thing over and over and trying to derail the thread. There's some even trying to turn it into a race issue. Bizarre
"Hello means hello". That sounds like some terrorist code. "They" might be coming for you soon.I don't know why people keep asking me the same thing over and over and trying to derail the thread. There's some even trying to turn it into a race issue. Bizarre
This whole thing has to be a piss take. 70 odd pages of this s
te. Top trolling.bmw535i said:
I know. Hello means hello - got to be pretty thick to say it means something in code
I don't know why people keep asking me the same thing over and over and trying to derail the thread. There's some even trying to turn it into a race issue. Bizarre
Ah so its a I don't know why people keep asking me the same thing over and over and trying to derail the thread. There's some even trying to turn it into a race issue. Bizarre
bmw535i said:
I don't recall making any rules
You said anyone "involved in terrorism" should be locked up whilst they're investigated. aka a rule.You've said you're one of the goodies, despite apparently being on cordial terms with known terrorists. There needs to be a line drawn between baddies like Khalid Masood and goodies like you. We're looking to you for advice here. Don't let us down.
Dindoit said:
You said anyone "involved in terrorism" should be locked up whilst they're investigated. aka a rule.
You've said you're one of the goodies, despite apparently being on cordial terms with known terrorists. There needs to be a line drawn between baddies like Khalid Masood and goodies like you. We're looking to you for advice here. Don't let us down.
I don't recall saying I was cordial with terrorists. These scenarios are all in your head.You've said you're one of the goodies, despite apparently being on cordial terms with known terrorists. There needs to be a line drawn between baddies like Khalid Masood and goodies like you. We're looking to you for advice here. Don't let us down.
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Based on what set of rules? They enforce rules. Why don't you try drawing some up so we can critique them. I'm sure you'll smash this one out of the park.
Current rules. I.e ones that make people known to the police. bmw535i said:
I don't recall saying I was cordial with terrorists. These scenarios are all in your head.
I've not read every last post, but even so that sounds like ducking the question you know is being asked 
How would you draw a line between good/bad that captures everyone (known/previously known/unknown)?
And how many people do you think it's possible to track to the level of detail needed to prevent these sort of attacks. Bearing in mind Minority Report wasn't a documentary
For now let's pretend laws precluding anything don't exist to make it easier.
Murph7355 said:
bmw535i said:
I don't recall saying I was cordial with terrorists. These scenarios are all in your head.
I've not read every last post, but even so that sounds like ducking the question you know is being asked How would you draw a line between good/bad that captures everyone (known/previously known/unknown)?
And how many people do you think it's possible to track to the level of detail needed to prevent these sort of attacks. Bearing in mind Minority Report wasn't a documentary
For now let's pretend laws precluding anything don't exist to make it easier.
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Just out of interest, who is going to decide if someone is or isn't involved in terrorism. Is there a bright white line people are not allowed to cross, because life usually that simple.
The security services.bmw535i said:
Yes I do have a complete lack of respect for police officers, or as you say, a "bee in my bonnet".
So, in his rather confused little world, bmw535i would hand over arbitrary powers of internment to folk he has expressed a complete lack of respect for. Truly bizarre.Given his performance here, I'd suspect bmw535i doesn't like having it pointed out to him when he's making a tit of himself - and that Plod have probably had cause to do that in the past - but doesn't know when to stop digging.
Greg66 said:
SKP555 said:
I think the valid point bmw535 is making is that these people are almost always "known" to the authorities yet seem able to carry out these acts anyway.
What is it the authorities are missing?
You could ask why he was even allowed out having been convicted of 2 separate stabbings.
Or you could argue that this plus an apparent interest in Islamic extremism should have set more alarm bells ringing. However the police have limited resources and presumably prioritise these to the highest risk people.
How they gauge that risk might be worth looking at.
One thing they are missing is 20/20 hindsight. What is it the authorities are missing?
You could ask why he was even allowed out having been convicted of 2 separate stabbings.
Or you could argue that this plus an apparent interest in Islamic extremism should have set more alarm bells ringing. However the police have limited resources and presumably prioritise these to the highest risk people.
How they gauge that risk might be worth looking at.
Saying that he was known to the authorities is pretty meaningless, if in fact there are a few thousand such people. May said that he wasn't "current" or something similar: ie he's been spotted before but (I assume) was not considered to be a current threat, and therefore not one of the "highest risk people".
I'd assume, based on zero actual knowledge but some sensible guesses, that the authorities have an eye on some lines of communication between here and Yemen, ISIS, wherever. They have a pretty good idea of who the main puppet masters are here, and the task is to work out whose strings are being pulled at any given time and to do what.
Although ISIS claimed this, it doesn't strike me as the result of a planned and well co-ordinated attack. I would not really be surprised if he genuinely cooked this plot up in the privacy of his own head over a pretty short period of time. It is very very difficult to defend against people like that, no matter what they do or what their motivations are.
The failure then was to identify that he was a real threat.
I suspect that failure is a result of too much of a focus on known terrorist groups (especially ISIS) and too little focus on the actual motives, attitudes and beliefs of people who carry out these atrocities.
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