House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
Gavia said:
Why do you think we'll be welcoming them back? You've got a poor opinion of out security forces if you think they'll just let them wander back into the country unchecked.
They will return and be "known" to the security services.SeeFive said:
Yes, one of those comments was mine.
I am with Andrew Neil on this, and used the word pathetic when describing their claims of responsibility earlier this week before he did. While not minimising my concern and the impact to any individual or their family who were casualties in this low ball, low tech and low intelligence attack, and even with the potential for nutters to do this on a more frequent basis, I will not let these pathetic, isolated incidents stop me living my life the way I want to.
I wished my daughter a nice day at the ideal home exhibition today and fully expect her to return home later despite the disproportionate reaction of a few to the latest atrocity. There was no mention of "take care, keep vigilant" or similar! Just enjoy your day as usual. She still has more chance of becoming a statistic in an accidental incident on the way there and back than she has at falling victim to these primitive morons, so until that balance changes, I will not be worrying about it - and that is the girl who I have tried to protect all her life so far.
Whilst replying, I would just like to add that IMO these animals are not representative of the genuinely decent Muslim people I have met and become close to over the years. I resent those decent people being lumped in with redical individuals with issues just by association of claimed faith of nutters, and that comes from a dedicated atheist.
There is a risk, but I don't think we should let it affect our daily lives - we rely on our security services to provide security. There is always room to improve or alter our approach to minimise the risk even further. When in Afghanistan our tactics continually changed to adapt to the ever evolving tactics of the insurgency. Simply carrying on with the same approach would have resulted in many more casualties.I am with Andrew Neil on this, and used the word pathetic when describing their claims of responsibility earlier this week before he did. While not minimising my concern and the impact to any individual or their family who were casualties in this low ball, low tech and low intelligence attack, and even with the potential for nutters to do this on a more frequent basis, I will not let these pathetic, isolated incidents stop me living my life the way I want to.
I wished my daughter a nice day at the ideal home exhibition today and fully expect her to return home later despite the disproportionate reaction of a few to the latest atrocity. There was no mention of "take care, keep vigilant" or similar! Just enjoy your day as usual. She still has more chance of becoming a statistic in an accidental incident on the way there and back than she has at falling victim to these primitive morons, so until that balance changes, I will not be worrying about it - and that is the girl who I have tried to protect all her life so far.
Whilst replying, I would just like to add that IMO these animals are not representative of the genuinely decent Muslim people I have met and become close to over the years. I resent those decent people being lumped in with redical individuals with issues just by association of claimed faith of nutters, and that comes from a dedicated atheist.
I don't think any reasonable people are lumping decent law abiding people with anyone else.
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Facing questions? Do you think they will be sent to prison? (Some of them will). What happens when they are released?(they will be).I think the perfect solution would be to refuse them re-entry. If they must be allowed to return they should be detained indefinitely.
People returning will have learnt a great deal on how to be more sophisticated terrorists - 'battle hardened' being a common phrase used to describe them.
SeeFive said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Before the thread gets locked, why don't we just admit that something is fundamentally rotten is Muslim society within the UK that's on a scale far far exceeding anything that doesn't even come close ?This thread has become a pool piddling exercise for most of you to try and make out its all the same, no excess problem here, don't focus or mention it, just ignore it and maybe magically it will all go away.
The answer of a civilised nation is to find the culprits of the crimes that you describe without lumping everyone else into the problem just because of their faith (or maybe something else) and apply the law to those individuals.
No on wishes to talk or even acknowledge the scale of the problem with Islam and Muslims in every European capital city where its exactly the same. At the top of the pyramid we have this kinda guy who pops up every month or two and who either succeeds or usually gets arrested first, because we know of 13 such terror attempts in the past couple of years. Below him we have 600-1000 people that have traveled to join IS and affiliates, below that we have people who support their activities directly or indirectly and who want to see soldiers and Police killed along with non Muslims. I'd say the base of the pyramid extends down all the way into schools with things like the Trojan horse issue, because its all a part of the same issue and hate. That encompasses an awful lot of people, but by no means all, as is usually the first implication leveled when you speak on the issue.
SKP555 said:
Gavia said:
bmw535i said:
Couldn't agree more. This notion that we are going to welcome the several hundred hardened jihadis back and expect them to just stop their activities in quite fanciful.
Why do you think we'll be welcoming them back? You've got a poor opinion of out security forces if you think they'll just let them wander back into the country unchecked. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swe...
SWEDEN YES!
rscott said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Before the thread gets locked, why don't we just admit that something is fundamentally rotten is Muslim society within the UK that's on a scale far far exceeding anything that doesn't even come close ?This thread has become a pool piddling exercise for most of you to try and make out its all the same, no excess problem here, don't focus or mention it, just ignore it and maybe magically it will all go away.
No one's denying there's a major problem with a very small proportion of those who consider themselves Muslims, however blaming the whole Muslim population for the actions of a tiny number would achieve nothing other than fuelling the propaganda of extremist groups on both sides.
In other news, Farage has been busy spouting nonsense on Fox that Britain is in fear, etc and that we need a travel ban. If it means lock up all 52 year olds from Kent who are politically active , then go for it. I'm sure we'd find space for Farage in a camp somewhere...
The scale of the problem is vastly more than in any other area. 3000 on a terror watch list , near exclusively all Muslim/Islam related and people try and make Mr Moat and equivalency to explain it all away and muddy the waters. Wake up.
jjlynn27 said:
SeeFive said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Before the thread gets locked, why don't we just admit that something is fundamentally rotten is Muslim society within the UK that's on a scale far far exceeding anything that doesn't even come close ?This thread has become a pool piddling exercise for most of you to try and make out its all the same, no excess problem here, don't focus or mention it, just ignore it and maybe magically it will all go away.
The answer of a civilised nation is to find the culprits of the crimes that you describe without lumping everyone else into the problem just because of their faith (or maybe something else) and apply the law to those individuals.
Some people that I work with, some of my neighbours are Muslims. They are nice people to be around.
Given the history of posts on this and similar NPE topics, I'd be very annoyed to live/work in close proximity of some posters.
You are. 2.8m muslims in the UK, 3000 apparently on watch. That is in no way something fundamentally wrong to use your words. It's a tiny minority amongst a large population demonstrably living peacefully & getting on with life.
One a
hole with a car, a knife & a grudge is one too many, but only the willingly credulous would go along with the idea that something is fundamentally wrong.
One a
hole with a car, a knife & a grudge is one too many, but only the willingly credulous would go along with the idea that something is fundamentally wrong.Deptford Draylons said:
rscott said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Before the thread gets locked, why don't we just admit that something is fundamentally rotten is Muslim society within the UK that's on a scale far far exceeding anything that doesn't even come close ?This thread has become a pool piddling exercise for most of you to try and make out its all the same, no excess problem here, don't focus or mention it, just ignore it and maybe magically it will all go away.
No one's denying there's a major problem with a very small proportion of those who consider themselves Muslims, however blaming the whole Muslim population for the actions of a tiny number would achieve nothing other than fuelling the propaganda of extremist groups on both sides.
In other news, Farage has been busy spouting nonsense on Fox that Britain is in fear, etc and that we need a travel ban. If it means lock up all 52 year olds from Kent who are politically active , then go for it. I'm sure we'd find space for Farage in a camp somewhere...
The scale of the problem is vastly more than in any other area. 3000 on a terror watch list , near exclusively all Muslim/Islam related and people try and make Mr Moat and equivalency to explain it all away and muddy the waters. Wake up.
Your "Trojan horse" and "wake up" comments are the ranting of a brainwashed fascist.
Edwin Strohacker said:
You are. 2.8m muslims in the UK, 3000 apparently on watch. That is in no way something fundamentally wrong to use your words. It's a tiny minority amongst a large population demonstrably living peacefully & getting on with life.
One ahole with a car, a knife & a grudge is one too many, but only the willingly credulous would go along with the idea that something is fundamentally wrong.
Yeah, nothing to see here with the exact same problems in every single European country. Of the 3000 on a terror watch list and the number of failed terror attacks, do you think Muslims and Islamic inspired terror are the tiny minority of those ? It probably also got a bit complex for you that the headline lone person here isn't something you explain away by saying 'what about Roal Moat' as if its a one for one equivalency.One a
hole with a car, a knife & a grudge is one too many, but only the willingly credulous would go along with the idea that something is fundamentally wrong.I know its asking some people to remove head from orifice, but if you indulge in the 2.8m Muslism, 3000 on a terror watch list = small minorty and no problem, then you maybe missing some important points that its a pryamid with a much larger base that one lone killer and the 3000 next behind him.
The fact that we have some 600 - 1000 people that have traveled to join IS and co, might also say the scale and difference in the problem is like nothing else. I can only liken this number of people as to anyone who in 1943 watched video footage of Nazis pushing people into ovens and saying 'these guys have got it right, they are for me' and rushing out to join them
I'm all ears if you can find an equivalency in Britain today. Please don't say Rauol Moat though.
jjlynn27 said:
Some people that I work with, some of my neighbours are Muslims. They are nice people to be around.
Some Islamist terrorists have been ordinary neighbours and colleagues too.If the security services couldn't spot that Khalid Masood was a potential terrorist with his previous convictions and the information they have access to then how would you hope to spot if your neighbouror colleague was leaning towards radicalism, and what they might be capable of?
SKP555 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Some people that I work with, some of my neighbours are Muslims. They are nice people to be around.
Some Islamist terrorists have been ordinary neighbours and colleagues too.If the security services couldn't spot that Khalid Masood was a potential terrorist with his previous convictions and the information they have access to then how would you hope to spot if your neighbouror colleague was leaning towards radicalism, and what they might be capable of?
Gavia said:
Deptford Draylons said:
rscott said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Gavia said:
A group of nutters. We seem to have a handle on who they are, so they're more than likely to face a lot of questions if they try to return.
Before the thread gets locked, why don't we just admit that something is fundamentally rotten is Muslim society within the UK that's on a scale far far exceeding anything that doesn't even come close ?This thread has become a pool piddling exercise for most of you to try and make out its all the same, no excess problem here, don't focus or mention it, just ignore it and maybe magically it will all go away.
No one's denying there's a major problem with a very small proportion of those who consider themselves Muslims, however blaming the whole Muslim population for the actions of a tiny number would achieve nothing other than fuelling the propaganda of extremist groups on both sides.
In other news, Farage has been busy spouting nonsense on Fox that Britain is in fear, etc and that we need a travel ban. If it means lock up all 52 year olds from Kent who are politically active , then go for it. I'm sure we'd find space for Farage in a camp somewhere...
The scale of the problem is vastly more than in any other area. 3000 on a terror watch list , near exclusively all Muslim/Islam related and people try and make Mr Moat and equivalency to explain it all away and muddy the waters. Wake up.
Your "Trojan horse" and "wake up" comments are the ranting of a brainwashed fascist.
I'm never that interested in people who scream that first and who lack the intelligence to offer up a counter debate. I made the point that things like the Trojan horse problem are a part of the issue here to a much lesser degree and low level stuff at what I call a pyramid.
If you lack the ability to debate and only scream 'fascist' , I may write you off as an idiot.
Gavia said:
Of course you (DD} blamed all, you said "there is something fundamentally rotten is (sic) Muslim society". To then unpick your argument is pretty funny though. 3000 people are not statistically valid in a population numbering in the millions.
To be clear at the outset, I don't 'blame all'. I didn't read the comment from DD 'something fundamentally rotten' as blaming all either. It's patently obvious that there are a number of rotten apples, and that's the 'something'. The size of that number and therefore the size of the something is another matter altogether, it doesn't have to be 'all'.
To finish where I started, I don't blame all, only those that are blameworthy.
Another thing - somebody on local radio, which is a national network, just said that we mustn't let this act of terror create division. Hmmm.
With respect to that unknown person...the idea that one part of society (whatever the number within it) killing innocent people hasn't already created a division is silly. What they mean is that those of us who are peace-loving and tolerant and non-racist and supporters of a free democratic society should work to ensure if possible that the division created by the rotten apples isn't widened by our over-reaction.
As human nature is involved, some reaction is inevitable but it should be constrained by our own civility and decency even in the face of horrendous acts of terror.
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
0.001% on the watch list. Hardly even worth mentioning in that context.
3000 out of 2.8m is 0.001%? Certainly not enough to say that it's a Muslim problem. It's a mental person problem who happens to be easily indoctrinated by extreme ideologies problem.
p1stonhead said:
Actually no it's 0.1% my mistake. Still incredibly low as a percentage of a population.
Certainly not enough to say that it's a Muslim problem. It's a mental person problem who happens to be easily indoctrinated by extreme ideologies problem.
Certainly not enough to say that it's a Muslim problem. It's a mental person problem who happens to be easily indoctrinated by extreme ideologies problem.
What to do with these 3000 mental people eh!
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
Actually no it's 0.1% my mistake. Still incredibly low as a percentage of a population.
Certainly not enough to say that it's a Muslim problem. It's a mental person problem who happens to be easily indoctrinated by extreme ideologies problem.
Certainly not enough to say that it's a Muslim problem. It's a mental person problem who happens to be easily indoctrinated by extreme ideologies problem.
What to do with these 3000 mental people eh!
For the record, I find all religion nonsense and the sooner it all dies out the better.
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