House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
andymc said:
so to put this in very simplistic terms if we hadn't been involved with the middle east would we still be targets or left till last by the glorious caliphate?
Our actions have not helped our cause but with zero meddling we would still be a target, if not at a bigger threat.Disastrous said:
I can only speak from my experience but genuinely, my old MX5 had a patch of rust on the sill and there really were no terrorists hidden anywhere else in or around the vehicle. I mean rust, not terrorists.
Well it's rather a curious analogy, but what did you do with the rust?How would you prevent more rust appearing elsewhere? What happens when the rust becomes so bad you can no longer contain it?
Disastrous said:
bmw535i said:
Disastrous said:
It might just be a patch of rust.
You won't know till you go looking. I can guarantee you'll find more somewhereGavia said:
That's because you want that to be the case. It's easy to have a damaged bonnet or wing that accounts for all of it.
My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
What views of mine are extreme?My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
bmw535i said:
Gavia said:
That's because you want that to be the case. It's easy to have a damaged bonnet or wing that accounts for all of it.
My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
What views of mine are extreme?My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
1. Indefinite detention without trial simply on suspicion of being a Jihadist.
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
You guarantee? How are you going to do that then?
By looking for moreAre you going to answer my question about the solution to the problem you acknowledge there is?
I just said I wasn't scared by the threat of terrorism. If I had the solution I'd be in a much higher paid job than I currently am.
Deptford Draylons said:
You complain about name calling after calling me a fascist ? Well at least you have a sense of humour fella.
On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.
I also did reference their whole culture as you put it or say 'all' at any time. Given your only ability to shout fascist first, I'm not surprised you have to try and stuff incendiary words into my mouth.
I'll address the middle point, but I love the way you topmand tail your argument with a nice ad hominem attack, there's a style to that and Tommy Robinson is a master of it. On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.
I also did reference their whole culture as you put it or say 'all' at any time. Given your only ability to shout fascist first, I'm not surprised you have to try and stuff incendiary words into my mouth.
You've not addressed the fact you invented this pyramid concept. It's your construct, until you address thatbthen you're not making a point. Even so, let's assume that you have a point, the base of the puramid would be huge and contain the non-violent, vast majority of people.
You can make a pyramid out of anything you want.
bmw535i said:
rscott said:
Let me guess, you focused on the rust, treating it, possibly even cutting it out and introducing rust free material? Then the rust stopped spreading and the vehicle was sound.
Are you advocating the permanent removal of this rust? (terrorists)Disastrous said:
Deptford Draylons said:
. I can only liken this number of people as to anyone who in 1943 watched video footage of Nazis pushing people into ovens and saying 'these guys have got it right, they are for me' and rushing out to join them
Sorry, I genuinely can't even understand what you're saying here. I'm reading it over and over but it just doesn't scan...I'm assuming there are a couple of typos etc but still...no idea!I'm making a point about those 600-1000 British Muslims who are said to have traveled to join ISIS and affiliated groups. These people know perfectly well what they are getting into by joining, and have all the video evidence of what ISIS is, and will have probably actually been encouraged by the video of ISIS atrocities.
I likened that to the first barbarity I can think of which is close , and that's Nazi death camps. These people have have seen or have access to the equivalent of if there was video of people being pushed into ovens in 1943. That they will have seen it and been encouraged to join shows the extent of the problem and sickness we are dealing with here.
Not only are we now starting to deal with these people returning, now that ISIS is slowly being pushed out, we are also starting to see the release from prison of a lot of people jailed years ago when this started to kick off in the early 2000's .This problem isn't confined to the UK and its repeated in every European capital in the exact same form.
Gavia said:
bmw535i said:
rscott said:
Let me guess, you focused on the rust, treating it, possibly even cutting it out and introducing rust free material? Then the rust stopped spreading and the vehicle was sound.
Are you advocating the permanent removal of this rust? (terrorists)bmw535i said:
rscott said:
Let me guess, you focused on the rust, treating it, possibly even cutting it out and introducing rust free material? Then the rust stopped spreading and the vehicle was sound.
Are you advocating the permanent removal of this rust? (terrorists)bmw535i said:
rscott said:
You're the one who brought the threat level into it. I assumed you did so for a reason...
Well to show that the security services believe we're at risk. They have done for some time and it shows no sign of decreasing I'd say it's far safer than when i lived there - 40+ terrorist incidents in 3 years, including the Baltic Exchange bombing.
I
bmw535i said:
Disastrous said:
I can only speak from my experience but genuinely, my old MX5 had a patch of rust on the sill and there really were no terrorists hidden anywhere else in or around the vehicle. I mean rust, not terrorists.
Well it's rather a curious analogy, but what did you do with the rust?How would you prevent more rust appearing elsewhere? What happens when the rust becomes so bad you can no longer contain it?
Gavia said:
Deptford Draylons said:
You complain about name calling after calling me a fascist ? Well at least you have a sense of humour fella.
On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.
I also did reference their whole culture as you put it or say 'all' at any time. Given your only ability to shout fascist first, I'm not surprised you have to try and stuff incendiary words into my mouth.
I'll address the middle point, but I love the way you topmand tail your argument with a nice ad hominem attack, there's a style to that and Tommy Robinson is a master of it. On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.
I also did reference their whole culture as you put it or say 'all' at any time. Given your only ability to shout fascist first, I'm not surprised you have to try and stuff incendiary words into my mouth.
You've not addressed the fact you invented this pyramid concept. It's your construct, until you address thatbthen you're not making a point. Even so, let's assume that you have a point, the base of the puramid would be huge and contain the non-violent, vast majority of people.
You can make a pyramid out of anything you want.
PS. Good move getting the Tommy Robinson barb in as another taint tactic. Someone beat you to saying Farage though.
Deptford Draylons said:
I think you can understand it perfectly well, but will indulge you as everyone will skip over the point made.
I'm making a point about those 600-1000 British Muslims who are said to have traveled to join ISIS and affiliated groups. These people know perfectly well what they are getting into by joining, and have all the video evidence of what ISIS is, and will have probably actually been encouraged by the video of ISIS atrocities.
I likened that to the first barbarity I can think of which is close , and that's Nazi death camps. These people have have seen or have access to the equivalent of if there was video of people being pushed into ovens in 1943. That they will have seen it and been encouraged to join shows the extent of the problem and sickness we are dealing with here.
Not only are we now starting to deal with these people returning, now that ISIS is slowly being pushed out, we are also starting to see the release from prison of a lot of people jailed years ago when this started to kick off in the early 2000's .This problem isn't confined to the UK and its repeated in every European capital in the exact same form.
No, I genuinely didn't understand but I get it now thanks.I'm making a point about those 600-1000 British Muslims who are said to have traveled to join ISIS and affiliated groups. These people know perfectly well what they are getting into by joining, and have all the video evidence of what ISIS is, and will have probably actually been encouraged by the video of ISIS atrocities.
I likened that to the first barbarity I can think of which is close , and that's Nazi death camps. These people have have seen or have access to the equivalent of if there was video of people being pushed into ovens in 1943. That they will have seen it and been encouraged to join shows the extent of the problem and sickness we are dealing with here.
Not only are we now starting to deal with these people returning, now that ISIS is slowly being pushed out, we are also starting to see the release from prison of a lot of people jailed years ago when this started to kick off in the early 2000's .This problem isn't confined to the UK and its repeated in every European capital in the exact same form.
I actually don't disagree-I watched an IS video showing an execution (if you remember it was the controversial one that CNN, I think it was, published of an airman being burned) and was absolutely repulsed.
Anyone who is motivated by that is not right in the head.
I just dispute that it's something to be leveled at 'the Muslim community' as a whole.
Deptford Draylons said:
You have little of anything constructive to say or even debate. Your first move was to shout 'fascist' at me using a false narrative that I talked about Muslim culture and described the problem as being of 'all' Muslims. Wholly false, and something I think even those who don't agree with me on the scale of the problem will admit is misleading by you.
PS. Good move getting the Tommy Robinson barb in as another taint tactic. Someone beat you to saying Farage though.
And you continue to fail to address a single one of my points. PS. Good move getting the Tommy Robinson barb in as another taint tactic. Someone beat you to saying Farage though.
bmw535i said:
rscott said:
I'll start.
1. Indefinite detention without trial simply on suspicion of being a Jihadist.
I don't think that's extreme.1. Indefinite detention without trial simply on suspicion of being a Jihadist.
p1stonhead said:
You think I have a solution? I never said I did.
I just said I wasn't scared by the threat of terrorism. If I had the solution I'd be in a much higher paid job than I currently am.
I was hoping you did instead of just moaning about others ideas.I just said I wasn't scared by the threat of terrorism. If I had the solution I'd be in a much higher paid job than I currently am.
Gavia said:
Yes. We're not advocating chopping the rest of the car up though just because it was part of the same car.
Nor am I, just the rusty bits (known to police). I don't think anyone is advocating locking all muslims up.p1stonhead said:
He wants to put your entire car in the impound lot due to your patch of rust.
No, just the rusty bits (known to police).rscott said:
If you can prove it's dangerous yes. Otherwise you keep an eye on it until you're sure it needs fixing.
I wouldn't be happy driving a car I knew was rusty.rscott said:
I'm honestly not scared by it. I've got friends and family who work in London and regularly go there - it doesn't change our plans one iota.
I'd say it's far safer than when i lived there - 40+ terrorist incidents in 3 years, including the Baltic Exchange bombing.
I
That's good, nobody should be scared of it. Being vigilant and aware isn't being scared. Dealing with the problem isn't being scared either.I'd say it's far safer than when i lived there - 40+ terrorist incidents in 3 years, including the Baltic Exchange bombing.
I
Disastrous said:
I did the only sensible thing under the circumstances, and locked up not just my mx5 but every other mx5 I could find, just to be on the safe side.
It has been noted how obtuse you areDisastrous said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I think you can understand it perfectly well, but will indulge you as everyone will skip over the point made.
I'm making a point about those 600-1000 British Muslims who are said to have traveled to join ISIS and affiliated groups. These people know perfectly well what they are getting into by joining, and have all the video evidence of what ISIS is, and will have probably actually been encouraged by the video of ISIS atrocities.
I likened that to the first barbarity I can think of which is close , and that's Nazi death camps. These people have have seen or have access to the equivalent of if there was video of people being pushed into ovens in 1943. That they will have seen it and been encouraged to join shows the extent of the problem and sickness we are dealing with here.
Not only are we now starting to deal with these people returning, now that ISIS is slowly being pushed out, we are also starting to see the release from prison of a lot of people jailed years ago when this started to kick off in the early 2000's .This problem isn't confined to the UK and its repeated in every European capital in the exact same form.
No, I genuinely didn't understand but I get it now thanks.I'm making a point about those 600-1000 British Muslims who are said to have traveled to join ISIS and affiliated groups. These people know perfectly well what they are getting into by joining, and have all the video evidence of what ISIS is, and will have probably actually been encouraged by the video of ISIS atrocities.
I likened that to the first barbarity I can think of which is close , and that's Nazi death camps. These people have have seen or have access to the equivalent of if there was video of people being pushed into ovens in 1943. That they will have seen it and been encouraged to join shows the extent of the problem and sickness we are dealing with here.
Not only are we now starting to deal with these people returning, now that ISIS is slowly being pushed out, we are also starting to see the release from prison of a lot of people jailed years ago when this started to kick off in the early 2000's .This problem isn't confined to the UK and its repeated in every European capital in the exact same form.
I actually don't disagree-I watched an IS video showing an execution (if you remember it was the controversial one that CNN, I think it was, published of an airman being burned) and was absolutely repulsed.
Anyone who is motivated by that is not right in the head.
I just dispute that it's something to be leveled at 'the Muslim community' as a whole.
There are of course people who watch such stuff and enact it. Anders Breivik is a similar such person, the person nail bombing in Soho years ago, all the usual people who get a mention in such debates, as if you just have to mention one such person as an equivalency excuse and they cancel each other out and equal no problem.
The scale of the problem is the issue here. In this case we have 600 to 1000 Breiviks who we know have gone to join ISIS and the wider base that supports them with extremist preaching, fund raising money, propaganda and the like. But how many Breiviks do we have with a similar support base ? No one wants to admit the scale of the problem and the fact its the exact same thing in every European capital and towns like Birmingham.
Having read back my original post, I probably could have worded it better, so point taken.
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